Did Rachel Reeves change anyone's mind re Labour?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

Apologies if there is already a thread but couldn't see one. Just got around to watching the RR interview from last week - www.mumsnet.com/news/mumsnet-founder-justine-roberts-puts-users-questions-to-shadow-chancellor-rachel-reeves there if anyone needs a link.

She seems to say quite clearly that Labour would protect women's spaces - and when Justine clarifies to ask if she means a woman on the basis of sex not gender, RR agrees that sex is the operative category!

I did not think we would see this from them. Does it change your mind?

I don't trust her, she has the same air amount her as Starmer, Sturgeon, Leyla Moran and Tories like Maria Miller - nose in air ( I have the best thoughts, opinions beliefs and everyone should do as I say, agree with me as if I am God or it's blasphemy).

Someone described this type and their enablers so well in this clip.

twitter.com/deb_fillman/status/1635291809177022467?cxt=HHwWhsDR4Y_P3LEtAAAA

It’s not enough to make me vote Labour - it’s not long ago Keir Starmer was saying it was wrong to say only women had a cervix and said “it was something that SHOULDNT be said”.

I’m going to have to see a lot more consistent evidence before they get my vote. That will include standing up for Rosie Duffield.

I've always suspected Rachel Reeve has common sense and I do like her; though it is going to take a lot more for me to vote Labour again. They are still too embedded and at the mercy of their activist base. And too many have said things and then dug themselves in afterwards.

A lot of leftists are not going to approve of Rache Reeve for a variety of reasons, and one of those is because she is a ' Friend of Israel', never mind the fact that she understands that sex matters.

If you have a Labour MP who you know is suuportive of women'srights and understands that sex matters, then you might feel accepting of voting Labour; but if like me you have a Labour MP who is full on TWAW then there is not one thing that could possibly entice you to vote for that MP. My MP is Kim Johnson ( Liverpool Riverside) and there is not a chance in hell I'll be voting for her.

Ive had years of the left wing saying 'after the revolution, love' to me. I'm not going to take the risk when child safeguarding is at stake.

The EqA and GRC has allowed men into women's prisons, allowed the NHS to lie about a man being on a ward when that man sexual assaulted a woman.

These are government controlled organisation, if they weren't interpreting the EqA correctly, how can private companies. If the government broke the law by allowing it, why arent human rights lawyers all over it? The find the money and time for other issues.

If reeves is waiting for the right time to speak up, how bad is she waiting for it to become?

I need any politician who expects my vote to demonstrate that they understand both the law in principle and how it works in practice. Its not good enough to give subtle hints, we wouldnt settle for that for another issue, why this one.

@ZuttZeVootEeeVo Yes, I see that and often feel like that myself. I have never, never voted Tory but after Rishi saying clearly that a woman is an adult human female and Raab saying his no 1 priority as justice secretary was preventing people being injured so he didn't think people with male genitalia should be in women's prisons.....

I just long for that clarity on the left. But not holding my breath.

Tbh I live in a Tory safe seat anyhow, with an MP who's been in Parliament since about 1932 and shows no signs of dying off, so it's more local elections for me.

I think if the whole party purity spirals into death, then something else will come along to start again.

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place, I know what I'm voting right now, and the labour party have less and less time to convince me to vote for them instead. There are still women in the labour party fighting the good fight, I applaud them. Because I wouldn't still be there. But one day maybe soon, they too will give up and let the labour party go. Nothing stopping them then or now setting up a new party that puts women first for a change.

I have an uncomfortable feeling that a month or two before the next election, kier starmer will come out with what we want to hear, very earnestly too. And it'll be too late.
When I saw the mess that was happening (circa 2003) I immediately saw what the issues would be re single sex (I didn't see the language mangling) if I can see that the GRA was going to be terrible and it has since proved to be terrible for women, then why cant the wannabe leader of the country? How stupid do you have to be to not see it? I don't want a stupid man in charge, look how bad bojo was, do we need another imbecile running the country?

As for Rachel, good she said something, sad it's only her saying it.

Thanks, Arabella. My first thought was that RR's use of "spaces" was reminiscent of Starmer's disingenuous letter, and I was going to try to dig out LWD's devastating response.

Wes Streeting said something muscular about this the other day in a New Statesman interview - something about how people need to stop 'gaslighting' women and listen to their concerns. It was very interesting language - he specifically used 'gaslighting'. I suspect the SNP situation has given any Labour waverers a big kick up the arse - it won't decide the election, but it is (in Lynton Crosby's terminology) a 'barnacle on the boat' that Labour won't benefit from if they get into power, and the sensibles (including Reeves and Cooper and Streeting) are quite willing to drop the more extremist positions now before they write the manifesto.

It's a net positive for me, certainly. I can't vote Labour where I live anyway but it makes me much happier about the idea of them winning. Seems fairly clear there'll be no return to self-ID if they win the next election.

Agreed absolutely!

I think conservatives want this to be an issue labour dont. In england at least, labour are going to want to appear as close as possible to the conservatives view so it doesnt become a hot issue.

If both parties are allowed to get away with saying women are female, nothing is going to change. Acknowledging sex at this stage isnt enough, we need to force both parties to justify why the GRA and EqA SSE is allowing men to be in changing rooms with girls.

Both parties can then fight it out as to why.

I am glad that the UK doesn't have unhelpful religious people like in the US where they are insisting that gender is sex ( I don't know if historically they had paperwork like we had here with sex on it) or that in marriage you are one flesh so men can be pregnant too.

Men are expected a baby with their wife and will become a Father, insisting that 'we are pregnant' isn't helpful at all.

I noticed they get their WhatsApp prayer groups to come for me too when I point this out.

I piss everyone off religious and non religious.

I guess time will tell. It'll be interesting to see if updating the GRA is in their GE manifesto. I feel at the moment they are just trying to distance themselves from the SNP fiasco. Hopefully Starmer won't want to risk the same humiliation.

I sign the the Government petition to repeal the GRA, it needs to go.

The equality act provides mentally ill people and those with ideologies rights.

Flashers shouldn't have the right to have NHS staff arrest female patients for complaints that a man flashed them on a ward.

She’s a lone voice. Even the idiotic labour leader cannot tell you what a woman is. They’re being led by the vocal (screeching) minority.

Thanks for this fromorbit:

Do not treat potential wavering allies as set enemies, especially women, because being a women on the left is hard. Remember the alternative to Reeves is someone like Stella Cressy. Dodds, the previous shadow Chancellor, is way more confused about gender than Reeves is.

I'm trying to keep that bridge open but the party is making it bloody hard. Presumably the groundswell that's turning into a tsunami of complaints about what's happening in schools and to women will help that shift continue - but they've not got much longer to reclaim their common sense and ethics about all this.

The way they handled this made me see that I was projecting what I thought the labour party was onto it. My eyes are open and I can't see me ever voting for the left again.

I now physically get the same sensation in my body that I get from a a creep/sex offender, as that's what they support, that has now become a reaction I get to certain logos and it's there for a reason.

I now physically get the same sensation in my body that I get from a a creep/sex offender, as that's what they support, that has now become a reaction I get to certain logos and it's there for a reason.

Yes, this is what I meant upthread when I said I physically wince when I see Lab politicians pop up in my newsfeed. I just assume it's going to be a horrible 'you too can get a cervix through hormone treatment' or 'why not have rapists in women's prisons' type comment.

I think the Wes Streeting comment above about gaslighting is really interesting. That's what I feel. Like I've been gaslit and I'm doing that thing of trying to decide whether I need to be the bigger person, rise above it.... or cut my losses and walk away from a party I've supported since before I could vote.

I appreciate those who stay.

It's not just the labour party politicians.

I get that reaction to the NHS, Police uniforms, certain flags and GNC people now too, I actually want to gag at men in particular, it's not irrational, it's evidence based because they stand for and safeguard dangerous men.

Is not being Stella Creasy seriously the best that women on the centre-left can hope for?
Why are we being asked to expect so little from our well paid elected representatives?

I also wanted to add that the more people try to make me not have that sensation in my body, the more I get it. It is not something that anyone is ever going to be able to talk me out of.

It's like my inner voice is screaming at me DANGER, when I see certain triggers, be they the traffic light red 🚥 and now I have that really strongly for other things, because they are a rational danger.

So the below is an excerpt from the New Statesman interview with Streeting referred to by a PP above -

"This brings us to the latest battleground of equality: transgender rights. Streeting, a former director of education for the LGBT charity Stonewall, would make the case for reform of Britain’s gender recognition laws. As it stands, for a person to legally change gender they require a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a doctor, and they must have have lived in their chosen gender for at least two years. Labour’s policy is under review.
“For me, it comes down to basic respect. I meet people all the time who introduce themselves by their name and use particular pronouns, and I respect them and accept that without asking to see their birth certificate, their passport, or asking them to pull their trousers down.”
But Streeting acknowledges the complexities. The Scottish government’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which Westminster prevented from coming into effect by invoking the section 35 order of the devolution agreement, was undermined by questions over transgender prisoners. The legislation would have cut the need for a medical diagnosis and reduced the required time for living in the preferred gender to at least three months.
Isla Bryson, a transgender woman who was convicted of raping two women as a man before transitioning while awaiting trial, was initially remanded in an all-female prison before Sturgeon reportedly intervened, and Bryson was removed to a male facility.
Scottish Labour had attempted to amend the legislation to protect single-sex spaces and bar anyone charged with a sex offence from obtaining a gender-recognition certificate, but they were struck down, and the party ultimately voted for the bill. Its policy on the issue is also under review.
“You can’t have a situation where a male rapist rapes a woman and then after the event defines as a woman,” Streeting says. “It is an insult to people who are trans who are seeing their identity used as a political football, and it is a danger to women as well.
“I think that the Scottish case provides an opportunity for us to all pause and take stock. I acknowledge that women who have been raising the alarm about this have done so in good faith. We need to stop gaslighting women, stop silencing women and stop pretending that there aren’t challenges, because this male rapist in Scotland has proved that there is a challenge.”"

To my mind, he's ducking the rather obvious problem that the issue isn't when Bryson transitioned - it's that Bryson's transition as such was enough to mean placement in the female estate. It could've been when Bryson was 12, doesn't matter.

So less clear-cut than I'd hoped :/

"I acknowledge that women who have been raising the alarm about this have done so in good faith. We need to stop gaslighting women, stop silencing women and stop pretending that there aren’t challenges"

That's a major shift (and one that starmer hasn't been able to utter). It does look as if those pink leggings have had a significant impact on the Labour silencers of women. But they need to follow through with actual policy proposals before I'll believe them.