What are your thoughts on agender people?

[abc567]

Hello mumset, I am brand new here and made an account because I'm curious about how GC women feel about agender people. This is purely for my own understanding as I've read several posts from GC women on this site saying they do not have a gender identity, and I wanted to explore further the reasons why this is.

From my understanding, there are two types of agender people:

1. gender apathetic i.e. people who don't have a gender identity and don't care (gender has no inherent value to them so they do not mind gendered language being applied to them)

2. gender averse i.e. people who don't have a gender identity and actively reject gendered language (they are distressed at the gendered aspect of their lives and are more likely to seek an androgynous appearance)

Do either of these concepts resonate with you, or do you still feel very connected to your female sex despite lacking a gender identity?

I have no issue with gender identity being taught at schools - PSHE lessons already cover drugs, sex, and severe mental illness - gender is relatively harmless in comparison! Plus teenagers are gonna find out about it online as it's in the UK news cycle 24/7.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, I just want to thank everyone for their contributions it has given me a lot to think about :)

From my personal perspective, I don't have a gender identity and have no idea what people mean when they say they feel like a man or a woman, and never will. But if someone's mental health is improved with different name and pronouns then I'll respect them. In the same way I'll never understand religion but if someone is a born-again Christian and chooses a new name then I'll respect that too, cause hey the world is falling apart and we have bigger fights to fight.

This is one of my favourite responses on MN!

As far as I'm concerned, I have XX chromosomes, no more discussion is needed. I have no issues at all with people who desire for whatever reason to present their image as androgynous or the opposite sex to that they were born but that doesn't make them the opposite sex. Gender as a concept is a bit psycho babble to explain personality traits.

I'll leave aside the practical issues for those presenting as a different sex to their birth as there's plenty of other threads!

I refused to wear a pronouns badge a couple of weeks badge - I stated my reason was its blatantly obvious I'm female and I don't need to virtue signal that I'm going to be nice to lgbtq+ people because I'm nice to everyone!

Gender is a belief much like religion, I'm not offended by it, I just don't share your belief

I dunno - I'm pretty offended by the idea that as a woman there's a list of things I'm supposed to like/do, and that some blokes who like/do things on that list are actually women.

no research, I just wanted to have a conversation :)

My thought on agender people is that there are more than 8 billion of us, every single member of the human race, seeing as there is actually no such thing as gender.

I agree on pronoun badges and the insistence of pronouns in work signatures - it's usually biological men & women that use them, plus it forces trans people out of the closet who aren't ready yet. Bad idea all around - gender plays no role in how I do my job and I don't come to work to have my gender validated!

I think people should stop spending so much time worrying about what gender they are as gender is a made up social construct based on stereotypes. Just concentrate on your sex and stop trying to make up labels for yourself to be part of some younique tribe.

First there were punks, then goths, then emo's and now there's 'having a gender identity'.

I think the problem here may be the word 'identity', tbh. It's meaningless

Yes I agree. It’s on a par with ‘authentic self’. One of those words in current parlance that, when you stop to think about it, doesn’t really mean anything.

I mean, we used to talk about people in terms of their values and behaviour, including assessing them against how well they held up their values, particularly under stress. This was what ‘having character’ was. So your internal character was assessed though your external acts.

But this seems to have been replaced by ‘identity’, which just seems to be what box you put yourself in and externalised through clothes and affectations.

That’s hardly progress, is it?

it's usually biological men & women

<looks left and right> - you have non-biological men and women at work?

I think these genders are far more important than agender.

have not RTFT and expect this to have been said 94 times already

gender averse i.e. people who don't have a gender identity and actively reject gendered language (they are distressed at the gendered aspect of their lives and are more likely to seek an androgynous appearance)

I don't have a gender identity. I am not androgynous I'm a 2nd wave feminist.

Do either of these concepts resonate with you,

No they don't.

Many years I talked to a transwoman friend. What struck me as the biggest difference between us was how strongly she identified as a woman and how desperate she was to change her body. Whereas I just happened to live in/with a female body. C

And if I magically woke up tomorrow in a healthy complete and fairly average male body I would not waste my time or my health on operations to change my body to female. I'd be busy figuring out how to live well as a man.

That was many years before people thought they had "gender identities" (they were transsexual or transvestite or butch or femme....) and before "gender critical" was invented.

I call it "playing the hand you're dealt" and "making the best of things". But you can call it whatever you like.

would there ever be a possibility that other people could have a gender identity, even if you (and other GC women) do not?

i know there are people who are Muslims even though I don’t believe in Islam.

But if someone's mental health is improved with different name and pronouns then I'll respect them.

How about if some male's mental health is improved by using female toilets and changing rooms? Taking part in a female rugby team? How far are you willing to go to validate their gender identity? Or do you have a boundary somewhere?

Wouldn’t it be better to pay MN for the opportunity to use their users as research participants?
And more ethical if you told people what their views are going to be used for?

good points, care to comment, @abc567 ?

So it's sort of akin to how atheist people don't consider atheism to be their "religious identity", they just don't believe in religion as an overarching concept?

It’s not akin to anything other than utter nonsense.

My youngest said she was agender, I told to address me as Chairmum.

Not being used for any research, I genuinely just wanted to hear your thoughts.

Happy to delete the thread once the convo is done if you'd all prefer?

eek, there was another page.
i see OP did comment.

I read a list of 72 Genders today, i closed the tab after rolling my eyes so much i got a headache, but blimey. What a load of self indulgent twaddle.

I reject all concepts of Gender as Stereotyping and a Social Construct, as pp said, designed to perpetuate the Patriarchy (spit)

And it is fine and dandy for us to talk about this ridiculous issue. But how is that helping girls in Afghanistan, Iran, Somalia etc etc?

You can have a gender identity if you want. Same as you can have a religious identity if you want. Doesn't stop me from believing it is all rubbish though.

While I should not discriminate or harass you because of your religion you may not discriminate or harass atheists. You also don't get to label us.

You don't get to impose your ideas upon others, and you don't get to compel me to speak in ways dictated by your religion. You also don't get to remove my rights because of your religion.

religion: none
gender: none
politics: plenty
sex: female

^^ this.

@abc567

If you're "agender", clearly in a different way to most people here (who are only interested in people's sex and don't believe in any innate gender identity that goes further than knowing which sex you are), then can you define what you mean by "agender" and why you feel other people are "gendered"?

I do not identify as or into feminine, womanly, womanhood, or anything that suggests that because I was born with the potential to conceive and gestate young, I must behave or present in a certain way.

It's utterly ridiculous and regressive in the extreme. And adding 'agender' to the ever increasing list, suggests that you believe that 'gender identity' is a defining factor in all people. I don't, so I reject any kind of label that suggests I identify with any kind of gender descriptor.

As pp said, there is simply, sex, and personality which manifests as a variety of individual forms of internal and external expression.

I have no issue with gender identity being taught at schools

Well you should.

www.newsocialcovenant.co.uk/RSE%20BRIEFING%20FINAL%201631%20(IS)_small.pdf