Scotland turning into a banana republic without the bananas as they "elect" the next El Presidente

[lechiffre55]

Just read this and my mind is blown. It's like reading about a South American dictatorship running "elections" to re-elect El Presidente beloved of the people!
wingsoverscotland.com/the-last-days-of-saigon/
The first link in that article "last night’s article on Craig Murray’s site" makes my heart sink to read. Over the years I have really softened to the idea of Scottish Independance. If the Scots think they are better of going it alone, then who are we to interfere? But the blatant corruption and utter lack of democracy in Scottish politics is starting to make me think the Scottish aren't up to running their own country. Like a small child who tells you they are totally up to using the gas cooker unsupervised, it's cute but not based in reality. It's an utter travesty what's happening, and a complete betrayal of the Scottish people.
Can whisky even be made from bananas?

I will read the article in a moment but now seeing panic stricken SNP members being airlifted by helicopter while the populace hammers on the gates shouting 'you've all gone bloody mad you feckers...'

Read it. Yep. They have all gone bloody mad. That needs shouting all over the national press.

@lechiffre55

You seem to have missed the point.
All is well. The SNP is self destructing; to the immense relief of at least half the population including its own supporters.

It hardly matters which acorn gets stuck on the head of Chicken-Licken.

CL will run around Holyrood in ever decreasing circles, squawking. Feathers will fly. Nothing will get done (another huge relief).

Next Election, we'll have a reckoning. Long overdue.

I see this killing the Scottish Independance movement for at least a generation. I thought the Tories were a shitshow, but at least the Tories gave each cadidate a knife and threw them all into the Thunderdome together. This stitch up is going to hurt the SNP more than they can possibly realise.
I wonder if it's Sturgeon and her husband deliberately torching the SNP to the ground and then salting said smouldering ground as an act of petty spite.

@2bazookas
Who will Scottish voters vote for to deliver a reckoning?
I don't see them voting Tory, Labour. Who is there to vote for to deliver a reckoning?
The mainland isn't much better. Tories have trashed everything. Labour aren't sure wheat a woman is even though they want their votes. Lib Dems are also woman guessers but more of a joke than Labour. Greens etc... may as well vote for Lord Bucket Head - probably get better leadership out of him too.

Tories have always fought between themselves. I actually think it is a good thing. If you have ready rebels then you have to win them over, you have to argue your policies. Of course, at times, they have got a bit carried away. Labour fight too but don’t seem to as much as the Tories (or maybe they just haven’t been in power for a while). The way the SNP never defie the party (because them were the rules) always struck me as profoundly undemocratic.

@lechiffre55 "may as well vote for Lord Bucket Head - probably get better leadership out of him too".

Do you mean this guy? You could be right.

Is that the fire brigade turning up to cut him out of the bin?

starting to make me think the Scottish aren't up to running their own country

😶

I vote Tory.

The party has a policy, passed during a private session of a conference that excluded the press, which prohibits public criticism of official policy or elected members.

This ^ is chilling.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/40d17148-b7b0-11ed-a1e6-75eebc433c21?shareToken=f2bf5bda005e53bc50e7eb99da85951f

The party has a policy, passed during a private session of a conference that excluded the press, which prohibits public criticism of official policy or elected members.

None of the other parties do this (well the Greens might)

@NatashaDancing
The party has a policy, passed during a private session of a conference that excluded the press, which prohibits public criticism of official policy or elected members.

This sounds like a line straight out of Soviet Cold War Russia.
When The Party prohibits public criticism of policy or members, it might start by being applied only to party members, but what sane mind thinks they will be happy stopping there. Why not just stop everyone criticising The Party?

Putin right now clamps down hard on critics. Any Russian criticising the war accidentally dies from falling out of a window even if they were on the ground floor. Putin has done 5 terms at the top so far as either President or Prime minister. He has to keep swapping back and forth because the Russian constitution, like most countries, limits consecutive terms at the top. So he bounces back and forth but he's the one in charge whatever his official title. He needs a second person to fill the other role while not disrupting his power, so Dmitry Medvedev does that.
Sturgeon is gone, but on the way out she and her husband are trying to rig who her sucessor is. Do you think she won't yield any power through the person she puts in her seat?

Anyone following JKR on twitter sees Iranians being sentenced to death and executed for criticising the Iranian regime.

In China The Chinese Communist Party controls everything. Dissent is not tolerated, never has been.

To hide party workings, to hide leadership elections, to hide lawmaking, to hide laws, is to hide democracy. The reason Sturgeon's gender bill was so badly formed is because it was built hidden in the dark away from the input and wishes of the people of Scotland. The reason it turned into such a political disaster is purely because a greater power exercised oversight over the Scottish legislature with section 35. Well, that and a multiple rapist in a wig with his cock poking out of his tight leggings. Sturgeon's ultimate goal was, and still is, to remove that oversight that prevented a catastrophe for Scotland.

It looks to me like the SNP see Sturgeon leaving as only a minor setback. She wants to decide who replaces her. The chosen sucessor has a history of clamping down on free speech. His Hate Crime Bill clamps down on so-called hate speech inside the home. No one in the home needs to be offended. If any person outside any home finds out what was said by any person inside any home, and considers it hateful, that's now a criminal offense in Scotland.
Sturgeon leaving will not change the path of the SNP if Sturgeon gets her way.

The motto of The Washington Post is "Democracy Dies in Darkness". There is no better way to ensure darkness and opacity than to control who gets to participate, and who gets to see the inner workings of politics. To stop any light at all shining on the process is to guarantee the darkness that is the death of democracy. This looks like a fledgling attempt to build a brand new dictatorship, in Scotland of all places. Never could I have imagined this happening in my lifetime.

I’m sorry but these GC threads feel more and more like a rabid hate for Scotland, for its politics and culture, rather than a meaningful discussion on gender these days. So many commenting here aren’t even in Scotland and don’t even live here— or maybe visited once.

Some of the comments about Scotland becoming a dictatorship are literally bonkers. Seeing mumsnet compared to 4Chan in 2018 is now more a reality.

I was here for the gender discussions but not for this!

I studied dictatorships and fascism at undergrad, I can literally discuss anything I want in Scotland, yes I might get criticism on Twitter but I won’t get murdered in my sleep…

The discussions here do a real disservice to and dishonour people actually killed and ‘disappeared’ from the time during Nazi Germany to those under Pinochet’s regime…

Despite what you think, gender isn’t the only thing here and maybe some of you should actually visit. Or if you live here, maybe get out more. The politics isn’t as harsh and ideological in practice as the media would have you believe. It’s really not as extreme as some of you seem to think, maybe spend less time online/Twitter and actually get out in the real world.

I’m gonna go now, mumsnet has literally lost the plot

(name changed as embarrassed to now be associated with these GC threads)

I live and pay tax in Scotland. I'm not posting from a gender critical position.

The current Scottish government is a disgrace. The Greens are basically Communists. They got less than 1.2% of the vote yet hold ministerial posts and are dictating government policy.

And you can bore off with your "hatred of Scotland" nonsense. That was the line peddled by the separatists in 2014 - anyone who didn't support the hare-brained, no thought at all, no grasp of reality idea of independence was "anti- Scotland". No we weren't - far from it.

Oh and as "for get out more" . I'm one of the owners of a business employing over 400 people.

As someone who doesn't support independence, I have a real scepticism about Wings as a source given the half truths, innuendo, conspiracy crap and downright lies he was posting during the independence campaign.

I suspect that he enjoys stirring things up from Bath or wherever he is based now and getting the clicks.

That's not to say I am impressed with the SNPs internal democracy (they do indeed have a gagging clause for their members which is why there is so little dissent compared with e.g. Labour) or the way they have run things in Scotland (definitely not a fan) but I wouldn't trust Wings as a reliable source just because he knows women are female. A stopped clock is right twice a day, and all that.

The "no criticism" rule is not an invention by Wings.

I have the misfortune of being related (fortunately only by marriage) to an SNP MSP. I know what their views are on the GRR Bill- not in favour, didn't say a word against it, voted for it.

I find 'Wingd' turnaround amazing. He was held up as a beacon of truth by independence supporters at the time of the referendum. He seems to have come to his senses done a complete volte face.

I think it's the difference between the idea and reality.

I don't think Scotland will be better off outside of the UK, but then I'm not Scottish, and my opinion doesn't matter, it's for the Scots to decide what's best for them. I think under the principal of self determination, that if the people of Scotland want to leave the UK they should have the right to do so. That's my theory.

But fork me the political situation with the SNP seems to be a real shitshow in reality. At least in the rest of the UK any party that makes a mess of things can get voted out. The Tories arses are dangling way out over the cliff edge from my point of view. I'm worried about Starmer the fence sitter not knowing what an adult human female is when he gets in. My point is in the rest of the UK the party in charge can be changed through a general election.

As an outsider looking at Scotland it does not look to me that the SNP faces the same electoral comeuppance mechanics as the rest of the UK because Scotland seems to be a one party state. It's the SNP no matter how they perform.
As a semi-sasanach my understanding of Scotland is going to be poor, but I'd love it if Scottish people could clue me in more please. A poster above said the SNP would face an electoral reckoning. I'd love to know how, I just can't see anything other than more of the same SNP.

That I criticise the SNP does not mean I criticise the people of Scotland, or Scotland as a country. My gut feeling is the people of Scotland could possibly leave the UK and make a good success of it, but only if they ditched the stale corruption of the SNP, and did it with a fresh political party. Maybe that's what will happen, Yousaf will finish off the SNP that Sturgeon has so badly poisoned, and new political growth will lead to a fresh way forwards.

I think under the principal of self determination, that if the people of Scotland want to leave the UK they should have the right to do so

The separatist vote in the 2014 referendum was 45%. Since then in the opinion polls support for separatism has only very briefly reached 51%. They are no nearer to achieving separation than in 2014.

The majority of voters in Scotland vote for Unionist, or if you prefer, unionist parties. There is no popular call to leave the UK.

The unionist vote is split between 3 parties and tactical voting only gets you so far. I will always vote for the candidate most likely to defeat the separatist candidate as it is separatism which is the most damaging for Scotland.

The SNP is a single issue party. It has no interest in governing for the good of Scotland because that would mean devolution works. It's easy and useful for their cause to blame the failure caused by their own inadequacies and incompetence on Westminster.

SCOTLAND IS NOT THE SNP
SCOTLAND IS NOT THE SNP
SCOTLAND IS NOT THE SNP

I can literally discuss anything I want in Scotland,

only because HY’s hate crime bill has not been commenced, when it is you can be reported for hate for your dinner table discussions. And if HY gets FM then he may well let the lobby group write in conversion bill they want to write which would be a huge breach of human rights and the end of free speech. Their report would ban Bible.

Damn this is depressing I thought they'd clean house. There's no hope for us in Wales then. They're pushing ahead with the same strategy that sunk Sturgeon 😪

Ahh ok I should maybe have stressed or bloded the "if"
How about I reword it to this:
I think under the principal of self determination, that whatever the people of Scotland democratically choose on the topic of independence from the rest of the UK should be respected and with good grace.
My opinion is that the Scots should be allowed to determine their own fate.

I appreciate the other info, that is useful to understand the situation better thank you.

There has been no volte face. Wings was pro indy before 2014, and is still pro indy. The difference is that the SNP were also pro indy up until 2014 under Salmond, but no longer under Sturgeon (despite all the claims that she talks of nothing but - she has done nothing to advance the cause.)

Wings was a truth-teller then. He's a truth-teller now.