Page 2 | Triggernometry - changing sides?

Righthandcider · 2023-03-01T14:34:14+00:00

I've just been watching a Mr Menno video from this week. At one point he responds to someone in the chat who says that the Triggernometry hosts have 'let the side down so badly' and have been slating someone - the name sounded like 'Ajah'. I can't find anything about this and wondered if anyone here could shed any light?

nepeta · 01/03/2023 16:34

I am pretty sure from watching the Triggernometry guys in the past that they are opposed to genderism for reasons which are opposite to mine. They are not pro-equality-of-the-sexes at all.

Neither are Tucker Carlson or Matt Walsh. It's like what someone wrote about these issues: Ku Klux Klan and the NAACP both need to be able to clearly define race but for opposite reasons.

ArabellaScott · 01/03/2023 16:37

Crewcut · 01/03/2023 16:10

KK tends to get testy if he is challenged by women in my experience. If it’s a man he will just consider it “banter” or part of a discussion.

I'm getting really tired of this. It seems to happen so frequently, and so many men who are otherwise often quite insightful and interesting do jump to sneering and attacking women who they see as 'uppity' for daring to speak on matters they seem to think are beyond us.

ArabellaScott · 01/03/2023 16:39

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 01/03/2023 16:13

They seemed able to deal with Julie Bindel. She doesn’t present especially ‘feminine’ which probably helped them

it’s quite fun watching sexist men deal with feminine presenting take no shit women. Unless you’re the woman in question of course

Show quote history

Well, this is the thing. I've been on the receiving end of men suddenly rounding on me in a discussion. It's really discombobulating. A discussion is going on, there's polite dissent and to-and-fro, then a woman chips in and suddenly it's all snarls and ad homs. Really weird.

FOJN · 01/03/2023 16:46

OneLongSmorgasbord · 01/03/2023 16:19

From what I remember.

Matt Walsh made that video about Dylan.
Triggernometry talked about it on one of their live streams saying that even though what he was saying was right, it didn't help to say it in the way he did. KK called Dylan she a few times during this.
Matt Walsh then made a video having ago at Triggernomtry about it.

At some point between 2&3 above (I think), Aya commented to KK about using she pronouns, he blew up and told her to fuck off and blocked her.
It's a pity because he talks sense about a lot of things but really didn't like being challenged by a woman.

The thing I took away from it all was that three men were arguing about whether one of those men had been mean about another man.

The Trigger lads taking issue with Matt Walsh over this suggests they are either OK with the way he often speaks about women or that they can't see his misogyny but they very much recognise Dylan Mulvanney as a man and think he should receive respect commensurate with that fact.

Best leave them to get on with it.

OneLongSmorgasbord · 01/03/2023 16:53

I was wondering if KK felt a bit of a twat after having some pushback on twitter about the MW comments and took it out on the nearest woman.
Plus KK is having quite the success in the media at the moment over that climate change speech he did recently and might be getting a bit of an ego after appearing on TV all over the place.
Who knows TBH.
They're definitely not "changing sides" as far as I'm aware though.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 01/03/2023 17:04

There're lots of gay men who are between tra and 'adult female human' definitions. Its to do with drag, and their own sexuality, i think.

Someone like matt walsh will be having none of that, but maybe KK will have been persuaded by that idea? I mean, i cant be the only one who can see dylan is performing for gay men, can i?

nepeta · 01/03/2023 17:16

Fwiw, I have read and watched what these men say for a long time. Their views about women as the female sex are patriarchal, and I don't see any change in that. Their reasons for disagreeing with gender identity ideology are linked to their views about the female sex as those views are sex-based, but their goals are not pro-women's rights at all.

I have seen some British men with originally similar views change them a little, due to the gender identity debacle, but that is unlikely to be the case in the US.

JacquelinePot · 01/03/2023 17:17

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 01/03/2023 16:10

I suspect they’re of the ‘any man who’d humiliate himself by wearing a skirt and make up and saying he’s not a man must be genuine. I mean what kind of man would want to look feminine? Only a not real man, that’s what kind’ persuasion

and obviously any poor man who is not a real man deserves sympathy, all the pronouns she could wish for and anything else her poor vulnerable heart desires

Yes, I reckon this is it.

There are men and "non-men". Women are non-men, but if a man is "unmanly" he can't really a man because men are manly, so he goes in the non-men box with us.

HairyPooter · 01/03/2023 17:31

Crewcut · 01/03/2023 16:10

KK tends to get testy if he is challenged by women in my experience. If it’s a man he will just consider it “banter” or part of a discussion.

KK gets testy full stop. He doesn't like being criticised. I've missed his testiness with Ajah on Twitter but he was peed off with a bloke a week or two ago. Something about audience numbers of Trig and Matt Walsh.

HairyPooter · 01/03/2023 17:46

I, of course, can't comment on the difference in nature of testiness. Don't know if old sexism was at play with Aja, as I missed it all.

@BernardBlacksMolluscs but KJK is feminine presenting and she handles them well too.

I always think that men come at this issue from a different perspective. It's a given. Plus, yes, KK does tend to look at it from a free speech angle. Sometimes his views and my views align but not always.

DemiColon · 01/03/2023 17:52

There is a pretty wide diversity of opinion about using requested pronouns, if it's ever ok, never, or sometimes, even among GE people. There are lots who will in limited circumstances, for a variety of reasons.

It seems weird that would cause such a kerfuffle in this instance.

DemiColon · 01/03/2023 17:54

But it wouldn't surprise me if they thought MW was kind of a dick at times, he is. And I don't think his views and theirs are all that close on a lot of things.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 01/03/2023 18:39

DemiColon · 01/03/2023 17:52

There is a pretty wide diversity of opinion about using requested pronouns, if it's ever ok, never, or sometimes, even among GE people. There are lots who will in limited circumstances, for a variety of reasons.

It seems weird that would cause such a kerfuffle in this instance.

It was his response to aya. It was neither funny (hes a comedian) or thoughtful (if hes setting himself up as a hitchens).

It was just a display of gender - a women critised him and he lashed out disproportionately. Which is no big deal, but just {hmmm} given it was off the back of him critising walsh for enforcing gender.

nauticant · 01/03/2023 18:42

The thing that kicked this off was Triggernometry taking a dim view of Matt Walsh doing a nasty and empty diatribe about Dylan Mulvaney. Their position was that Walsh was cynically throwing red meat to his supporters simply for his own benefit and that it might be better to criticise a figure such as Mulvaney in a way that won't alienate a significant part of the potential audience.

This is actually part of a more general disillusionment Triggernometry are experiencing over the anti-woke. In their view as time is passing the anti-woke are in some ways turning into their opponents, the woke, for example having their own version of Cancel Culture.

I think these positions are worth thinking about.

terryleather · 01/03/2023 18:45

I enjoy Triggernometry for the most part and find many of their guests really interesting but it hasn't escaped my notice that they seem to regard feminism as just another aspect of "woke" - in this they're no different to many of the other male "heterodox" thinkers out there. It's disappointing, but it's not surprising.

I may agree with them on quite a lot of stuff, but they have a blindspot when it comes to women's rights/feminism.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 01/03/2023 20:11

I think these positions are worth thinking about.

But the trigg reaction to walsh wasnt exactly nuanced, either. They were appealing to their base of 'anything but right wing Christian americans'.

The truth is Mulvaney doesnt look or act anything like a woman, its a lie to pretend that he does. If our aim is to stop children thinking that changing sex is possible and passing is likely, we need to stop pretending that Mulvaney looks anything other than a man. Its cruel, but otherwise we are lying to children by pretending we dont see a man manically performing for the camera.

I dont know if the best way is the matt walsh way, or not. But at least hes doing something that attracts attention. If a few kids see, maybe its worth it? I dont really care if adults are upset.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 01/03/2023 20:18

I thought it was because the Trigger boys criticised Matt Walsh for really laying into Dylan Mulvaney. I think it was a case of ok, Dylan's trans and a grifter but no need to be so cruel because he's just a harmless effeminate person. Aja and a few others didn't like DM because woman face and that's a problem for women. A blocking occurred. I don't think KK or FF have changed sides.

nauticant · 01/03/2023 20:18

They were appealing to their base of 'anything but right wing Christian americans'.

I'm not sure that's correct. They got a furious response from their audience, many of whom were strongly in favour of the Matt Walsh approach.

AlisonDonut · 01/03/2023 20:19

The way that they know that Dylan is a man, is that if Matt Walsh had said that about a woman, it wouldn't have raised one eyebrow hair.

The fact that they had a pop at him, and he retaliated, and they then had to do another response, shows just how protective they are about other men.

Whilst of course, telling the only female in the conversation to fuck off.

And they posit themselves as the good guys.

Winterborne74 · 01/03/2023 22:27

He was unnecessarily rude, but it was a bit of a storm in a teacup as far as I can see. Certainly not evidence of changing sides, just an example of someone who rejects gender ideology, but not from a feminist or even typically gender critical perspective. This is the exchange I think:

mobile.twitter.com/konstantinkisin/status/1627951882525196289?s=61&t=vrfh73NvYySozkuIkLckQw

Kisin is in many respects a social conservative who thinks that adhering to gender roles leads to better outcomes for men and women. For me he is least interesting when talking about gender. I find much of what he has to say on other matters worth listening to even if I disagree. But on sex and gender there are so many more interesting people to read/listen to.

EmmaEmerald · 01/03/2023 22:35

I'm really confused

FF and KK still believe that sex is binary, right? Leaving gender stereotypes out of it?

flyingbuttress43 · 01/03/2023 22:35

Coincidentally, I have just finished watching Winston Marshall's interview with Matt Walsh on The Spectator TV, which went up on YouTube yesterday. Marshall - who is gender critical - challenges Walsh about his reaction to Dylan Mulvaney as being to harsh, cruel, alienating etc. Walsh doesn't attack him back but explains why he responded to Mulvaney in the way he did. Mulvaney of course is a man......

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPdPoSmGYEk

flyingbuttress43 · 01/03/2023 22:36

"too" not "to" of course.

EmmaEmerald · 01/03/2023 23:16

nauticant · 01/03/2023 18:42

The thing that kicked this off was Triggernometry taking a dim view of Matt Walsh doing a nasty and empty diatribe about Dylan Mulvaney. Their position was that Walsh was cynically throwing red meat to his supporters simply for his own benefit and that it might be better to criticise a figure such as Mulvaney in a way that won't alienate a significant part of the potential audience.

This is actually part of a more general disillusionment Triggernometry are experiencing over the anti-woke. In their view as time is passing the anti-woke are in some ways turning into their opponents, the woke, for example having their own version of Cancel Culture.

I think these positions are worth thinking about.

I may be very dense but I am struggling to understand this.

I do find that KK gets over emotional and carried away. In fairness, whenever I've seen him do this, if he feels he was wrong, he has no issue saying "I was wrong, sorry".

I will have to catch up with the Matt Walsh comments but quite honestly, this stuff is beginning to have so many hidden layers and self-referential content, I'm not sure it will make anything clearer.

but if K and F have suddenly started on the opposite path, it would be a huge shock.

rabbitwoman · 01/03/2023 23:19

Matt walsh's video on Dylan Mulvany was utterly brutal. And I agree with him.

DM is deliberately provocative and probably did not mind the negative attention at all.

Kk and FF were very critical of MW's approach on twitter and had a row with him about it, and other GCs joined in - Ajah was particularly critical of KK using she her pronouns for DM. I have noticed this myself - I take care not to misgender if I can help it myself, and have had my knuckles wrapped by other GCs who otherwise I very much align with.

Kk and FF did a video on the disagreement.

I think it's a shame for people who broadly acknowledge that this is a dangerous ideology to become so heated amongst ourselves about pronouns. I also think Kk and FF are thoughtful and insightful interviewers. Just watch their interviews with grooming gang survivors - they do, however, had a very laddish sense of humour that may not appeal to all.

But I like it!!!