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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Will smears be done by men/TWs in future?

137 replies

WeepyWillow · 28/02/2023 13:30

I had a smear test this week. The female nurse asked whether I wanted a chaperone in the room with us.

Bemused, I asked what she was on about. New policy apparently. Previously, if a male medic is performing an intimate examination the (female?) patient is offered a chaperone. But now, For Equality, the offer is made to all irrespective of sexes involved.

Is this to pave the way for TWs doing smears? Will the offer of a chaperone be to cover the NHS back?

I know from breast examinations that a female is always in the room when a male doctor examines. They don't even ask you, the team of two will be in the room. For mammograms a female x-rayer is guaranteed. But what might that mean in future?

On the one hand I think, don't be so ridiculous Weepy, it'll never happen. But on the other...

At the moment I can ask to see a female GP, no problem. For most complaints the sex of the doctor is irrelevant but sometimes I feel more comfortable talking to a woman. Might I lose that option in future?

OP posts:
Pigletnotatwiglet · 04/03/2023 15:45

I have a male gynaecologist and never had a chaperone. Just me and him in the room.

Appleypie · 04/03/2023 15:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

bellinisurge · 04/03/2023 18:43

@RichardBarrister - what a fucking creep

WaterThyme · 04/03/2023 20:44

Three years ago I needed a breast check after odd pains around my armpit.

A female ultrasound team checked me over, they were great. A female mammographer also did an excellent job. Then I had to see the consultant to do a physical check and draw all the results together. He asked me to go into the curtained bit, take all my clothes off my top half and lie down on the usual padded table. He shouted “nurse”, for a chaperone. When he had checked I was ready, he came in to examine me. I looked up at the ceiling as it would have been uncomfortable to look into the face of a strange man manipulating my breast.

When the consultant said he’d finished, I looked up and saw a man at the end of the padded table by my feet who had watched throughout. He was the chaperone.

I felt violated. I had expected to see a woman. No-one had asked me if I’d be ok with a male chaperone, let alone with a stranger.

redbigbananafeet · 04/03/2023 20:52

WeepyWillow · 28/02/2023 16:30

I don't ever recall a female HCP offering a chaperone. And with a male doctor there's always been a female HCP present for intimate examinations.

Further back, I remember as a child a watching a sleazy doctor fondle my Mum's breasts, calling it a breast cancer check. There's good reason for having a female chaperone in the room now.

So long as women can make informed consent about who treats them in what circumstances then I don't have a problem.

I'm just wondering whether there is a covert push to remove that informed consent. If TWAW and you refuse treatment from a TW, can treatment be withheld or delayed?

I'm genuinely confused as to what your point is. Currently a male nurse can give a smear test and asks you if you want a female chaperon. You had a (who you assume to be) a female nurse asking if you want a female chaperone. So I can't understand what the problem or question is. I'm GC for the record

Appleypie · 04/03/2023 20:54

Why was my post deleted?!?! There was nothing controversial in it!

redbigbananafeet · 04/03/2023 20:58

RichardBarrister · 28/02/2023 17:22

Of course it would be different. The average male medical professional is not living out their fetish. I have no problem with male medical professionals.

Interestingly, of the 70 or so male midwives in the UK - several of them now have convictions for sexual assault or owning child sex abuse images.

There have been quite a few convictions of male nurses/doctors for rape or sexual assault - one elderly stroke victim was raped so viciously she haemorrhaged and died as a result.

In Brazil, an anaesthetist was convicted of orally raping an unconscious mother while she was undergoing a caesarean.

I don’t think you will find a similar ratio of convictions to staff among female HCPs. Chaperones are offered for a reason.

When was Valerie Kneale's killer identified?

Appleypie · 04/03/2023 21:26

@mnhq I'd appreciate an explanation for my deletion, thank you. Not least so I don't break whatever rule it is I've apparently broken again.

RichardBarrister · 04/03/2023 21:56

When was Valerie Kneale's killer identified?

I’m not sure of the dates of arrest/charge etc but

“A healthcare professional (Hernando Puno), has been arrested on suspicion of murder, rape and sexual assault following a police investigation at Blackpool Victoria Hospital.

A spokesman for Lancashire Police said the man was in custody after being arrested on suspicion of murder, two offences of rape and one offence of sexual assault.

The arrest was made as part of a murder investigation into the death of Valerie Kneale, 75, from Blackpool, who died from a haemorrhage caused by a non-medical-related internal injury.

www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20220105/2822094241985

I can’t find an update about the actual hearing.

WeepyWillow · 05/03/2023 08:09

@redbigbananafeet I have only ever had women do my smears. If I'd thought about it I would have assumed it was the policy for women to do them.

Because she asked whether I wanted a chaperone this time and with the gender agenda it set me wondering.

I dislike smear tests. Having it done by a man would be even worse. Medics would say that they are professionals and a body is just a pile of tissues and bones. Although there are occasional cases of doctors abusing their power I'm not worried that would happen to me. Just a female nurse is the least bad option.

OP posts:
WeepyWillow · 05/03/2023 08:10

@Appleypie what did you want to say?

OP posts:
Appleypie · 05/03/2023 09:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

mids2019 · 05/03/2023 11:05

TW do work in hospitals and are probably attracted to a caring 'female' profession where gender neutral uniforms are the norm and recruitment policies the norm. I don't think it would ever be highlighted to a patient as misgendering another staff member would be a potential disciplinary offence.

I think the OP does have a relevant question (but I would imagine a rare occurence). I don't know how you could write into policy that a TW needs to reveal their sex status to a patient so I think this a challenging picture.

I think you need a good lawyer to draft person specs for jobs that would specify born sex rather than gender?

Appleypie · 05/03/2023 11:10

I think you need a good lawyer to draft person specs for jobs that would specify born sex rather than gender?

I thought the law as it stands allows for that.

PorcelinaV · 05/03/2023 11:32

mids2019 · 05/03/2023 11:05

TW do work in hospitals and are probably attracted to a caring 'female' profession where gender neutral uniforms are the norm and recruitment policies the norm. I don't think it would ever be highlighted to a patient as misgendering another staff member would be a potential disciplinary offence.

I think the OP does have a relevant question (but I would imagine a rare occurence). I don't know how you could write into policy that a TW needs to reveal their sex status to a patient so I think this a challenging picture.

I think you need a good lawyer to draft person specs for jobs that would specify born sex rather than gender?

I see your point, but they could at least easily have a policy of where someone requests a "woman" or "man" that this is assumed to be biological sex and so trans people are excluded.

Whiteroomjoy · 05/03/2023 11:58

Sadly I have way more issue with a transwomen doing my smear than a male GP

imhe, going back to 80s and 90s most of my smears and breast examine were performed by male GPs as nurse clinics were not an option available to many at time. My gynae appointments and exams including child birthing were mostly male doctors.

I felt most male GPs weren’t exactly thrilled by doing smears back then. A few were shit at it and hurt me, or seemed to take hours to find my cervix so experience as to go to female gp as much as possible who sort of understood how painful or uncomfortable it could be if not done properly. I was astonished by one female gp who was in and out in less than a minute once. When I said it was so quick she looked confused and then laughed and said “ well it’s not like they wander off”

But, I thought, even back then, that it was a bit weird how many male doctors wanted to make their life’s work about women’s reproductive organs and genitalia and specialise in gynae . Still leaves me questions as to why, frankly…but beggars can’t be choosers . Yep, I know it’s sort of academically interesting but we’re At receiving end of decades of ignorance and neglect around gynae problems because male gynaes didn’t listen. It takes a pretty arrogant man to think he’d be massively beneficial to his patients to specialise these days.

so, male nurses doing smears . Outside of emergencies. Nope. Don’t trust them to find my wandering cervix. Don’t trust them to have any idea of what discomfort they can inflict on my vagina and cervix

And now they suggest we accept a male nurse doing it whilst in “ girl” mode…nope. The arrogance of that individual in trying to tell me that , based on their appearance, I must consider them a biological women, is so breathtaking, it means they’re the last person I want doing any sort of intimate exam on my body. They just don’t understand even the most basic fundamentals of what being female is, despite all the nursing duration on sex based physiology they’ve had. I would expect a caring, compassionate nurse , who happens to be a transwomen, to respect patients boundaries and simply ask and accept a no, if given, with understanding and acceptance…as I think most male nurses would.

i have no issue, in theory, with a transwomen nurse doing bloods, dressings, tests, and all the many other non intimate tasks they’re needed to do these days. But if they’re dressed or come across as a “ performative “ “ look at me womanising” that is a merest whiff of overt sexuality, I’d be telling them that I’m not consenting to participate in their sexual fantasy and asking for someone else.

IcakethereforeIam · 05/03/2023 13:20

@Appleypie looks like salad is also off the MN menu!

Appleypie · 05/03/2023 14:16

IcakethereforeIam · 05/03/2023 13:20

@Appleypie looks like salad is also off the MN menu!

Omg! I'm sorry MN but wtf?!?!

OK, you got me. Do it to Julia, as a clever man once wrote. TWAW, have it your way.

Ffs. This has really pissed me off! I've never been deleted before!

IcakethereforeIam · 05/03/2023 14:19

I wonder if your post was reported because of the.....substitutions. fwiw I thought your post was entirely reasonableFlowers I'm glad I managed to read it.

Appleypie · 05/03/2023 14:24

Thanks @IcakethereforeIam

Whenever I see a deletion message, I always think ooh they must have written something really juicy. Well, now I know!

An explanation would still be nice @mnhq

MammogramResults · 05/03/2023 14:26

Seriously again!@Appleypie 💐 I'm having lettuce for my lunch! (Kidding nothing so healthy would ever pass my lips)

Helenloveslee4eva · 05/03/2023 14:45

Chaperones in hospital clinics are normal. So not Mal you don’t notice them - a nurse pottering around passing notes , lining up exam couch etc and happening to be there when a procedure is done.

in gp land there aren’t the spare people but everyone should be offered a chaperone for an intimate examination and probably for all physical exams. It’s just good practice and cqc likes it.

im a female HCP. I won’t examine a gent without a chaperone , and I offer all women for intimate exams ( even though the response is uh of course not ) .

My own ( male ) Gp got a chaperone to examine my knee . As I’d turned up in shorts anyway this seemed overkill 😂. I suspect new policies 😂

WeepyWillow · 05/03/2023 18:56

@Appleypie tsk tsk lowering the tone with saucy salad references. No wonder the mods are on your case 😉🤣

OP posts:
redbigbananafeet · 05/03/2023 19:38

RichardBarrister · 04/03/2023 21:56

When was Valerie Kneale's killer identified?

I’m not sure of the dates of arrest/charge etc but

“A healthcare professional (Hernando Puno), has been arrested on suspicion of murder, rape and sexual assault following a police investigation at Blackpool Victoria Hospital.

A spokesman for Lancashire Police said the man was in custody after being arrested on suspicion of murder, two offences of rape and one offence of sexual assault.

The arrest was made as part of a murder investigation into the death of Valerie Kneale, 75, from Blackpool, who died from a haemorrhage caused by a non-medical-related internal injury.

www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20220105/2822094241985

I can’t find an update about the actual hearing.

www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/blackpool-hospital-carer-kissed-women-26154811

The lady that died wasn't one of his victims was she?

Appleypie · 05/03/2023 20:38

Thanks for all the salad leaf appreciation and apologies for the inadvertent derail 🥬

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