Will smears be done by men/TWs in future?

[WeepyWillow]

I had a smear test this week. The female nurse asked whether I wanted a chaperone in the room with us.

Bemused, I asked what she was on about. New policy apparently. Previously, if a male medic is performing an intimate examination the (female?) patient is offered a chaperone. But now, For Equality, the offer is made to all irrespective of sexes involved.

Is this to pave the way for TWs doing smears? Will the offer of a chaperone be to cover the NHS back?

I know from breast examinations that a female is always in the room when a male doctor examines. They don't even ask you, the team of two will be in the room. For mammograms a female x-rayer is guaranteed. But what might that mean in future?

On the one hand I think, don't be so ridiculous Weepy, it'll never happen. But on the other...

At the moment I can ask to see a female GP, no problem. For most complaints the sex of the doctor is irrelevant but sometimes I feel more comfortable talking to a woman. Might I lose that option in future?

I'm just wondering whether there is a covert push to remove that informed consent. If TWAW and you refuse treatment from a TW, can treatment be withheld or delayed?

A rape survivor who wrote to request a female hcp for a mammogram had her letter held up in a training session as an example of unacceptable transphobia.

I guess it depends on how captured your NHS trust is and if there are any staff on the side of women.

I'm on the NHS. No personal gynae.

Prefer to have a woman do the smear test

You may be surprised to discover that the average nursing professional isn't living out their fetish either.

But I agree, I wouldn't want a trans-woman giving me a personal examination either - or a trans man/NB for that matter. I'd just want someone competent, with a grounded sense of scientific reality.

That would be a recent policy in my experience then.

For a mammogram you are guaranteed a female HCP. No offer of a chaperone.

I have had a few smears done by male doctors

I was at a practice for a while with 3 male doctors and only one woman so it was commonplace - they did always offer an appointment with the female doctor but I don't really mind

I volunteered at a covid vaccine site. I remember we had a young adult male ask if he could have a female nurse for his injection. He was nervous and said they were more like his mum than he male nurses. Usually, I would think it dodgy as anything, a bloke requesting a female hcp, but not in this case, he was scared, bless him 🙂

I refused an intimate procedure recently, and they had to find an alternative way of examining me (which they did).

It was with a female doctor - I just didn't feel comfortable. I don't think it's actually anything to do with gender - sometimes you just feel triggered. I think a chaperone would make me feel worse actually. I'd rather the fewer people involved the better.

I don't think it's sexualised at all on the part of the medical professional, but that doesn't stop you from feeling vulnerable. In some ways, the fact that it's so mundane and everyday for them makes it harder, as in my experience, often they can't relate to how big a deal it is for you.

I think I'd actually be willing to have an intimate procedure done by a male doctor or nurse, providing he was a human with empathy. Same goes for a trans person - my recent instinctive reaction to a female doctor has made me realise it's about how they treat you and make you feel, not what anatomy they have.

I don’t want a man doing my smear test or mammogram.

Of course it would be different. The average male medical professional is not living out their fetish. I have no problem with male medical professionals.

Interestingly, of the 70 or so male midwives in the UK - several of them now have convictions for sexual assault or owning child sex abuse images.

There have been quite a few convictions of male nurses/doctors for rape or sexual assault - one elderly stroke victim was raped so viciously she haemorrhaged and died as a result.

In Brazil, an anaesthetist was convicted of orally raping an unconscious mother while she was undergoing a caesarean.

I don’t think you will find a similar ratio of convictions to staff among female HCPs. Chaperones are offered for a reason.

It's not a new policy, they have asked for over 30 years (there's a sign in the waiting room about asking for a chaperone too). Men have always done smears, you may be surprised to know that gp's used to be the ones doing them and many are men. At my doctors you have always been allowed to request a woman for a non urgent intimate procedure but there's no ban on men

I have been examined and treated by both female and male gynaecologists. I have had gentle, courteous treatment from both females and males, and I have had unkind, impersonal treatment from 1 female and 2 males, out of many more than I can remember. I do not like internals, regardless of whether a woman or a man performs them. But when men perform them, regardless of how gentle they are, I feel invaded and far more distressed. I will never again accept to be internally examined by a man.

Chaperones aren't a new offer, even when the patient and doctor are same sex and regardless of which examination/procedure is happening. Our gp surgery has always asked if you want a chaperone for anything which involved removing clothes or for more intimate examinations, whether it's a male or female doctor/nurse.

Not a smear, but I have had a coil replaced by a male doctor. There was a female med student there as well as chaperone.
I didn't especially mind but did find it a bit rich when I requested the local anaesthetic gel as I'd had it when I had my first coil placed and he said that the evidence says it doesn't make any difference (he did still give it me tbf) -fair point on actual effect on pain but if you've ever had your cervix manually opened you know that even a dose of placebo effect is welcome 😂

I’ve always been offered a chaperone and I’ve only ever had female practitioners (as far as I’ve been aware) doing my smear test. This has been the case for the last 20yrs. I had a male practitioner insert and remove my IUD and was also offered a chaperone.

Regarding the comment above above who said:

“I'd just want someone competent, with a grounded sense of scientific reality.”

I’m not how you’d prove that? What if they believed in creation? What if they just had longer hair, wore make up, and were a man who identified as a man?

I don't care what gender they are. If they are male I want the choice.

A chaperone will be fine for many women. For others they will not. We are entitled to that choice.

And I’ve had rectal examinations for the last 30yrs (unfortunately!) and have always been offered a chaperone whatever the sex of the practitioner.

I think the system works.

One thing that can be difficult is when patients demand a certain sex perform an observation/intervention in stretched departments where a specific sex amh not be available.

There have been situations I am aware of where women have been redirected from other duties to cover for men unecessarily.

In our patient databases it is not uncommon for the notice 'no men' to appear for treatment intervention and though the NHS is sensitive to patients' wishes effectively pushing out a certain sex from certain interventions inadvertantly puts pressure on trusts to be biased in their recruitment

This.
Qualified nurses can be either sex.
Men will already be doing smears with consent.
It's a medical procedure not a day out
No need to get angry just decline

The difference is that my male gynaecologist is a man who is a gynaecologist.

He isn't a man saying that he is a woman.

I don't want to be intimately examined by a man who says that he's a woman. I think that's a massive safeguarding issue in my life, because that man obviously isn't a woman, so is attempting to delude me, while intimately examining me.

That's fine if we can agree on what sex means. If a female HCP might be male then it gets less clear.

While giving birth I was asked whether I would have a male student midwife in the room. I declined. No big deal.

If it was a TW student midwife would I have been told that nowadays?

Not smears but I had a male midwife for my last DC and he was fab. It was just him although DH was also in the room when he wasn’t off eating a sandwich

I was asked for my permission for all students - male or female

I avoid all situations that might involve a chaperone, but on the rare occasion, I take my own.

Offering a chaperone is nothing new and should be a standard thing to ask for intimate procedures. Men can and do already carry out smears, but as with any medical procedures women have the right to request a female nurse. The issue for me is that if a transwoman is being considered a woman it means the woman having the smear cannot give informed consent, and might not be able to request a different nurse (in theory you can for any reason, in actuality this can be challenging if the NHS does indeed consider them as women).