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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Experiences of a Trans Person

1000 replies

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:11

I think it might be healthy to document here the experiences of someone from the other side, and for you to pay it some mind.

I'm an early-twenties STEM student working in renewable energies, and outside of my course I'm a photographer and musician. I've travelled a fair amount and adore my home country of Scotland. Living in Glasgow, I have found a queer community of beautiful people who create a joy to everyday life I treasure.

At the beginning of this month there was a 'Let Women Speak' rally held here that some of you here attended; I have seldom felt more unwelcome and stripped of dignity than while in your crowd, carrying out my photojournalistic duties (images 1&2). While capturing Kellie-Jay Keen pathologising my friends as subhuman perverts and members of the crowd flaunting their homophobia and their use of dogwhistles (subliminal far-right messaging) I was being brazenly looked up and down, receiving steely gazes and pursed lips and hushed whispers behind my back. While photographing the first speaker after Keen, who began her piece portraying autistic people as children devoid of agency, I was approached by one of you who made it clear I looked too queer for their liking and was squaring up for assault. I made my way out at this point (captured at 8:42 here and 9:09 here).
The atmosphere your movement brought to George Square was one I've only before experienced while documenting far-right rallies in Eastern Europe, where I have been hounded through the streets and beaten up for the same reason. I assure you, your ideology would feel very much at home there.

At the other side of the square things couldn't have been more different, you were bathed in colour and music and hugs and laughter, the place is full of friends dancing and dressed resplendent in whatever camp pretty things they felt like (images 2&3).

Ours was a crowd of locals; I strained to hear a Glasgow accent in yours.

Ours is a city that at short notice manages to fill the top of Buchanan Street (image 5) in solidarity with the queer community - the last time I saw it like this was during COP26. It's one that fills George Square in a candlelit vigil for Brianna Ghey.

Your movement has meant I'm called a pervert and a groomer while going about my average daily life. Our morally vacuous, increasingly fascist political class (thinking also of Magnus Hirschfeld and of Martin Niemöller's famous poem) is picking up what you've started and they're running with it. You may not call yourself a homophobe, a white nationalist or an antisemite, but you're sitting awfully comfortably considering that those that do find your movement incredibly attractive.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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tattygrl · 27/02/2023 17:23

Why are people thinking one of the links was a tracker?

JoodyBlue · 27/02/2023 17:23

TeenDivided · 27/02/2023 17:19

What rights don't TW have, apart from rights given to women as a sex class?

TW can't legally be discriminated against for jobs, housing etc.

But that doesn't give them the right to invade spaces set aside for biological females.

this

Mum23amazingkids · 27/02/2023 17:24

BigglyBee · 27/02/2023 17:18

Scotland is a country that accepts people , promotes human rights and acceptance . Bigotry has no place here

Unless you count the sectarian violence which still simmers in Glasgow, or the open hostility to English people. And please, don't pretend that racism doesn't happen in Scotland...

Bigotry is still there are always has been. I think it has just changed its makeup, personally.

Oh please ! What lien hostility to English people ? I moved from England , I’m nit even Scottish myself and that is such a small minority ! I suffered a lot more hate xenophobia and racism in England !

nepeta · 27/02/2023 17:24

TeenDivided · 27/02/2023 17:19

What rights don't TW have, apart from rights given to women as a sex class?

TW can't legally be discriminated against for jobs, housing etc.

But that doesn't give them the right to invade spaces set aside for biological females.

It's like trans activists demand a place at the societal decision-making table, and when they are welcomed and told to pull up a chair to the table they refuse and demand, instead, the chair on which the women's rights activism sit.

Refusing to vacate that chair is then deemed bigotry.

SpudleyLass · 27/02/2023 17:24

Goading women on MN and telling us to expect violence in retaliation for opposing them

Just manly things.

NotHavingIt · 27/02/2023 17:25

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:41

Retaliation in the face of existential violence is to be expected. You expect us to go quietly into lives stripped of dignity?

Huge irony, not sure if intended?

To try, literally, to claim womanhood in the service of male needs is indeed a form of exsitential violence. To erase actual women and suggest they are just a figment of the social imagination. I'm not sure how successful you would be if attempting to colonise the existential space of any other group.

NalaNana · 27/02/2023 17:25

@Ereshkigalangcleg @RoseslnTheHospital

"Retaliation in the face of existential violence" is very different to "look at me wrong and you deserve violence". The words are being intentionally twisted to suit your own narrative.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 17:25

I’m so against things told from both sides here I would be here all day making a list . But I say it again , it’s good to see her testimony here . It’s important she knows , people are not all like on MN .

So, is it ok for women to be threatened with decapitation for standing up for women and girls as a sex class?

And people generally are more like they are on MN than OP when it comes to this issue, in that they don't agree with lots of the things trans rights activists demand. Hope this helps.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/02/2023 17:25

existential violence is to be expected. You expect us to go quietly into lives stripped of dignity?

actual snort out loud while at work

oh! The literal violets!

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/02/2023 17:26

NalaNana · 27/02/2023 17:25

@Ereshkigalangcleg @RoseslnTheHospital

"Retaliation in the face of existential violence" is very different to "look at me wrong and you deserve violence". The words are being intentionally twisted to suit your own narrative.

Oh gr

maybe you can explain what existential violence is?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 17:26

"Retaliation in the face of existential violence" is very different to "look at me wrong and you deserve violence". The words are being intentionally twisted to suit your own narrative.

It's quite clear that it's intended as a threat, unless one is extremely obtuse.

QueenHippolyta · 27/02/2023 17:27

I suggest the OP reframe his trauma...

StephanieSuperpowers · 27/02/2023 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Oh dear. That's a bit of a pisser for the people who thought there was any genuine intent behind this post.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/02/2023 17:28

QueenHippolyta · 27/02/2023 17:27

I suggest the OP reframe his trauma...

Yes, poor poppet.

SueVineer · 27/02/2023 17:29

SpudleyLass · 27/02/2023 17:15

You spent over 14 years dealing with women's rights and still don't understand that we have the right and need, for single sex provision?

I must admit, I do zone out a bit at work too, but that seems a bit extreme

Lol! I suspect that poster is tired sue to her 23 kids.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/02/2023 17:29

StephanieSuperpowers · 27/02/2023 17:27

Oh dear. That's a bit of a pisser for the people who thought there was any genuine intent behind this post.

Heaven knows what chappie thought this would achieve

same as his other thread. More revealing than he probably wants in reality

imagemini · 27/02/2023 17:29

@invalide you said you'd "bite" but you didn't answer the question about whether women should be able to keep their sex-based rights.
Do you agree with single sex spaces for women and girls? Rape crisis groups, refuges, prisons?
Do you understand why women want to keep them and why is so important?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 17:30

Oh dear. That's a bit of a pisser for the people who thought there was any genuine intent behind this post.

They don't care whether "invalide" was in good faith or not. They just want to be holier than thou, performatively virtue signal and scold women who know what women are.

DerekFaker · 27/02/2023 17:30

So go back to those thousands of other threads calling me and the people I love perverted degenerates, i

This isn't happening.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/02/2023 17:31

DerekFaker · 27/02/2023 17:30

So go back to those thousands of other threads calling me and the people I love perverted degenerates, i

This isn't happening.

No, but yer lad is having some lovely drama pretending it is

BoreOfWhabylon · 27/02/2023 17:32

Mum23amazingkids · 27/02/2023 17:14

I honestly applaud your post , your photos and your testimony . I’m tired of the anti trans brigade and their hate and their bigotry . For over 14 decades I dealt with women’s rights directly and indirectly and represented them . I’ve never in those 14 years had a woman come to me with anything even related to trans women affecting their rights or fear of trans women . Im sure a tinny minority had some sort of issue at a stage , I’m not denying it , but is this worthy of taking away rights to a whole community? Of promoting hate ? Of constantly harassing an already under attack minority ? Absolutely not .
Trans people , men , women , I don’t care have as much rights to be protected under our laws as anyone else .
Seeing this almost “ far right “ like as you describe so well , protests in Scotland is actually scary . Scotland is a country that accepts people , promotes human rights and acceptance . Bigotry has no place here

Are you Mridul Wadwha?

Melroses · 27/02/2023 17:32

Mum23amazingkids · 27/02/2023 17:14

I honestly applaud your post , your photos and your testimony . I’m tired of the anti trans brigade and their hate and their bigotry . For over 14 decades I dealt with women’s rights directly and indirectly and represented them . I’ve never in those 14 years had a woman come to me with anything even related to trans women affecting their rights or fear of trans women . Im sure a tinny minority had some sort of issue at a stage , I’m not denying it , but is this worthy of taking away rights to a whole community? Of promoting hate ? Of constantly harassing an already under attack minority ? Absolutely not .
Trans people , men , women , I don’t care have as much rights to be protected under our laws as anyone else .
Seeing this almost “ far right “ like as you describe so well , protests in Scotland is actually scary . Scotland is a country that accepts people , promotes human rights and acceptance . Bigotry has no place here

You are 140? Shock

SpudleyLass · 27/02/2023 17:32

imagemini · 27/02/2023 17:29

@invalide you said you'd "bite" but you didn't answer the question about whether women should be able to keep their sex-based rights.
Do you agree with single sex spaces for women and girls? Rape crisis groups, refuges, prisons?
Do you understand why women want to keep them and why is so important?

He referred to them as ''gender based rights'' so I think we did, unfortunately, get a reply.

Never mind that neither gender identity nor ''gender'' are actually protected characteristics under the EQA 2010, unlike biological sex.

TheShellBeach · 27/02/2023 17:33

Melroses · 27/02/2023 17:32

You are 140? Shock

More than 140, as presumably s/he did not start "representing" women when a baby.

Therefore s/he must be about 160.
Hmm

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/02/2023 17:33

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:41

Retaliation in the face of existential violence is to be expected. You expect us to go quietly into lives stripped of dignity?

Ah, so it's OK to strip women (original female version, oppressed and marginalised for millenia) of their identity, history, rights and dignity and they just have to suck it up, because even women just saying "hey your conception of womanhood does not align with my lived experience and by imposing it on me without my consent you diminish my social, physical and political agency, we need to find a different way" is a dog whistle to entirely unrelated people on the far right with entirely different views to enact violence towards trans people, but it's not OK to "strip" trans people of their "dignity" (by saying no to their demands to impose archaic and sexist constructions of womanhood on to the rest of us) so they are entirely justified in responding with actual violence?

Got it.

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