Experiences of a Trans Person

[invalide]

I think it might be healthy to document here the experiences of someone from the other side, and for you to pay it some mind.

I'm an early-twenties STEM student working in renewable energies, and outside of my course I'm a photographer and musician. I've travelled a fair amount and adore my home country of Scotland. Living in Glasgow, I have found a queer community of beautiful people who create a joy to everyday life I treasure.

At the beginning of this month there was a 'Let Women Speak' rally held here that some of you here attended; I have seldom felt more unwelcome and stripped of dignity than while in your crowd, carrying out my photojournalistic duties (images 1&2). While capturing Kellie-Jay Keen pathologising my friends as subhuman perverts and members of the crowd flaunting their homophobia and their use of dogwhistles (subliminal far-right messaging) I was being brazenly looked up and down, receiving steely gazes and pursed lips and hushed whispers behind my back. While photographing the first speaker after Keen, who began her piece portraying autistic people as children devoid of agency, I was approached by one of you who made it clear I looked too queer for their liking and was squaring up for assault. I made my way out at this point (captured at 8:42 here and 9:09 here).
The atmosphere your movement brought to George Square was one I've only before experienced while documenting far-right rallies in Eastern Europe, where I have been hounded through the streets and beaten up for the same reason. I assure you, your ideology would feel very much at home there.

At the other side of the square things couldn't have been more different, you were bathed in colour and music and hugs and laughter, the place is full of friends dancing and dressed resplendent in whatever camp pretty things they felt like (images 2&3).

Ours was a crowd of locals; I strained to hear a Glasgow accent in yours.

Ours is a city that at short notice manages to fill the top of Buchanan Street (image 5) in solidarity with the queer community - the last time I saw it like this was during COP26. It's one that fills George Square in a candlelit vigil for Brianna Ghey.

Your movement has meant I'm called a pervert and a groomer while going about my average daily life. Our morally vacuous, increasingly fascist political class (thinking also of Magnus Hirschfeld and of Martin Niemöller's famous poem) is picking up what you've started and they're running with it. You may not call yourself a homophobe, a white nationalist or an antisemite, but you're sitting awfully comfortably considering that those that do find your movement incredibly attractive.

You seem unable to process and acknowledge the fact that there is at the very least the same proportion of males who have trans identities as the general male population who will commit sex crimes and violence against women and girls.

The statistics show it is much much higher in proportion, in fact.

Why have you decided to ignore that any male walking into a female single sex space has the same likelihood of being there to harm women and girls?

How have you convinced yourself that it is respectful to those women and girls who might be distressed by any male being in that space, to allow any male to enter?

Why have your prioritised any male person’s needs above a female person’s needs?

And how have you convinced yourself that so many male people pass as being ‘a female person’ ?

So I presume you call ALL men sexual deviants and perverts, right?

No but we have safeguarding against all males because some are. That's how safeguarding works.

People may be calling transpeople deviants
And perverts

Not here

Out IRL I have started to hear it - the two recent cases hard on the heels of sturgeon gender recognition reform really brought this to peoples attention. Unfortunately IRL there are no moderators.

Don't blame us for what other people do. I mean I know we are women and therefore to blame for all ills in sone peoples eyes but that's your weakness

If this had all been more open and dare I say a more nuanced discussion in advance of the inevitable discovery that not all transgender people are lovely that could have been avoided. We were not looking for no debate however .

Because the more people shout only about the risk of trans women in their spaces, the more the real issue is ignored - the issue of dangerous men. Of predatory men. Of male abusers.

You don't seem to grasp that other male people aren't asking to use female spaces. That's the problem. MTF trans people are not being singled out for any other reason. It's about women having some spaces completely free of male people, for our safety, dignity and privacy. And regardless of the personal identity of any male, they shouldn't be in a women only space, because those are for women.

No but we have safeguarding against all males because some are. That's how safeguarding works.

This. It has zero to do with trans anything.

nilsmousehammer · Today 08:35

Initially I thought this thread would last about 5 minutes before HQ nuked it on the basis of good faith issues, but it's useful that it's been left to stand.

I believe it's useful as well, not good, but useful, because as you point out, it exposes the arrogance and potential for violence of this group of spoiled sods, who absolutely refuse to compromise, yet expect women to not only compromise, but to capitulate unconditionally.

It's very easy to see which side is right.

Do you really expect people to continue to explain when whatever they say, you're going to just reply with this fantasy drama?

How do you know which male people are sexual deviants and perverts? How do you know which ones should not be in women's spaces?

Do you expect women to just suck up a certain amount of rape, assault and perversion rather than some males have to cope with not having free access to use women's spaces? Are those male people seriously this unable to care about females as human beings?

Because the more people shout only about the risk of trans women in their spaces, the more the real issue is ignored - the issue of dangerous men. Of predatory men. Of male abusers.

How can we tell the difference though? Humza thinks he can - he thinks Isla Bryson is ‘at it’ - yet still voted for the ‘Isla Brysons’ to be regarded as legally female and according to the Scottish government, to be treated as a woman for all purposes. Meaning that he can use female spaces and we have no right to have him removed. So that’s a bit confusing. Do you think Humza Yousaf is transphobic?

Have you worked out how to tell the difference between a predatory man taking full advantage of the additional access to women that self id policies allow and the innocent trans person going about their business? Please tell me your secret because I haven’t.

have not RTFT but this stuck out

Funny how that 'protection' has only been leading to violence against the queer community

who is committing that violence? do you have any evidence to show that it is women, perhaps the disabled woman who struggled to be heard on sunday?, who are committing all this violence?

If it is women going round beating up the queer community - why is the queer community so keen to get into women's spaces?

That was a lot of words to trot out "be kind"
And I'm not unsympathetic to the Queer Community at all. I'm fairly relaxed (for me) about trans people using the facilities of their choice.

I am less (as in - not) supportive of people constantly harassing and shouting down women. There is no "be kind" coming from the queer community. No expectation that they will listen "to the other side". So when you, in the Queer Community, start to listen, maybe the women who only want to preserve their own rights will start to listen to you.

Important too to remember: Bryson may have been removed from the female prison estate (largely because the public kicked off, not because anyone cared about what Bryson would do to the women trapped in a space with Bryson)

There is no barrier to Bryson getting a GRC and being declared 'female'

There is no barrier to Bryson walking into any women's space Bryson feels like. And doing what Bryson did to a group of trainee beauticians.

No. Women matter too. Get over it.

have not RTFT

You've not particularly missed anything, it's all a bit like every other thread of this nature goes, apart from the amazing revelation that babybels come in larger sizes.

JusteanBiscuit

"I'm sorry you have treated this way. Sadly, some can't see how evil it is to be calling trans people perverts, degenerates and paedophiles (which I have seen only today). Mumsnet isn't the place for you to be able to have a considered conversation about it."

So you don't support the OP saying that any threat that women receive for supposedly being treated this way, is justified 'retaliation' for women saying 'no'.

You see, I do interpret your post as being supportive of that. So, if you are not please confirm. And if you don't support what the OP has stated, I will apologise.

I am perfectly able to process and acknowledge. This is why I do more than just sit at a keyboard on a site like this. I get involved in consultations. I fight to find a middle ground so that everyone is supported and safe. I don't just completely dismiss sections of people. There is a safe middle ground that can be found, I truly believe that. I don't actually think self ID without any history is the right way. I think there needs to be adequate - actually, better than just adequate - psychological support for anyone who is questioning their gender. I think there do need to be safeguards in place. But screaming that they're all just perverts and it's all just a sexual kink doesn't help us move toward everyone being kept safe.

I am quite used to being abused and told that I'm a terrible, terrible person. A terrible mother. Not the right sort of feminist. That I'm obviously a man. Any a million other insults. And that's fine. I stay polite. I don't name call. I don't shout.

I think the number of deleted posts responding to me is quite telling. I have been polite. All I did was say that not all trans people are perverts. But go at it. Like I say, the more people scream that the BIG danger is trans women, the more men can just carry on in the shadows and avoid being discussed.

There is no barrier to Bryson walking into any women's space Bryson feels like. And doing what Bryson did to a group of trainee beauticians.

YY. Those young women would rightly have objected to undressing in the presence of any other random man, @JusteanBiscuits but in this case, a man they would later find out was a rapist, they didn't feel they could. Why is that, do you think?

Yep.

I help run my local sports club, we have 450 or so members, a mixture of juniors and adults. There are strict safeguarding and welfare policies in place to ensure that the safety of juniors (and adults) is not compromised. Adults are not allowed in the changing rooms during junior sessions, coaches are other club officers are all DBS checked, we work with local schools, social services and parents to ensure that vulnerable children are properly catered for. Yes, we had a few men complain about not being able to use facilities at the same time as the juniors and they were told in no uncertain terms to suck it up. Thankfully the majority of adults buy into these policies, understand why they are there, and do not infer from them that all men and women are being called deviants or perverts, because, you know, they are not fuckwits.

Aw pet. Someone looked at you funny and you felt unsafe. Diddums

Meanwhile those of is that don't live a life of delusion see which side the hate and violence is coming from:

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10196892/uni-trans-activist-charged-alleged-assault-at-protest/amp/

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23268023.police-probe-decapitate-terfs-sign-trans-rally/

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/transgender-activist-tara-wolf-fined-ps150-for-assaulting-exclusionary-radical-feminist-in-hyde-park-a3813856.html

'screaming that they're all just perverts and it's all just a sexual kink'

The only person who has said, or suggested this is you.

Teen: "Mum, you are literally killing me by not doing my laundry"

Mum: "I'm not your service human, why don't you stop navel gazing and learn how to use a washing machine"

Teen: "It's not fair, literal violence, fascism, I have a non washing identity, you're not respecting that etc" storms off

It's hilarious. We're supposed to believe that a load of middle aged and elderly women have suddenly become right wing on one very specific issue and nothing else. Anyone who thinks that is frankly stupid or disingenuous.

When have women been denounced as witches for standing up for women and children's rights? Forever. Same old, same old. Still not doing your washing.

No one is "screaming". Women are pointing out why they have concerns.

This is a dishonest sleight of hand.

If you cannot produce the evidence that posters on this thread have declared that 'all trans people are sexual deviants and perverts', then you need to acknowledge that you have used hyperbole, cognitive distortions and over exaggeration to present your case.

I think many posters on this thread have been very clear. The proportions for a male with a trans identity to commit sex crimes and violence against women and children is at least the very same as the whole of the general male population.

No one says 'all males are like this' and no poster on this board says 'all trans people are like this'.

You have tried to portray this as happening on this board though.

It's weird. Your position here probably accords with most other women on this thread. Yet you are characterising others as unreasonable.

The trans people who come on here to berate us and complain we're not service humaning properly, why don't they actually spend time creating clear distance between themselves and the paedophiles using their movement?

There are plenty of examples of paedophiles using the trans agenda. Karen Dolatowski who attacked children in toilets (and ended up in a woman's prison), the alleged trans rapist who allegedly abducted the young girl in Scotland recently, the Mermaids trustee who had to stand down.

Gay men IIRC have made a big stand against PIE and still do (the wanking PhD student got a lot of push back for trying to claim his perversion was part of gay culture). Where are the trans people doing the same?

Screaming? Can you hear women screaming? On their keyboards? You must have very good hearing. Or an overactive imagination. I'll say the latter.

The internalised misogyny runs deep eh.

This^^