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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Experiences of a Trans Person

1000 replies

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:11

I think it might be healthy to document here the experiences of someone from the other side, and for you to pay it some mind.

I'm an early-twenties STEM student working in renewable energies, and outside of my course I'm a photographer and musician. I've travelled a fair amount and adore my home country of Scotland. Living in Glasgow, I have found a queer community of beautiful people who create a joy to everyday life I treasure.

At the beginning of this month there was a 'Let Women Speak' rally held here that some of you here attended; I have seldom felt more unwelcome and stripped of dignity than while in your crowd, carrying out my photojournalistic duties (images 1&2). While capturing Kellie-Jay Keen pathologising my friends as subhuman perverts and members of the crowd flaunting their homophobia and their use of dogwhistles (subliminal far-right messaging) I was being brazenly looked up and down, receiving steely gazes and pursed lips and hushed whispers behind my back. While photographing the first speaker after Keen, who began her piece portraying autistic people as children devoid of agency, I was approached by one of you who made it clear I looked too queer for their liking and was squaring up for assault. I made my way out at this point (captured at 8:42 here and 9:09 here).
The atmosphere your movement brought to George Square was one I've only before experienced while documenting far-right rallies in Eastern Europe, where I have been hounded through the streets and beaten up for the same reason. I assure you, your ideology would feel very much at home there.

At the other side of the square things couldn't have been more different, you were bathed in colour and music and hugs and laughter, the place is full of friends dancing and dressed resplendent in whatever camp pretty things they felt like (images 2&3).

Ours was a crowd of locals; I strained to hear a Glasgow accent in yours.

Ours is a city that at short notice manages to fill the top of Buchanan Street (image 5) in solidarity with the queer community - the last time I saw it like this was during COP26. It's one that fills George Square in a candlelit vigil for Brianna Ghey.

Your movement has meant I'm called a pervert and a groomer while going about my average daily life. Our morally vacuous, increasingly fascist political class (thinking also of Magnus Hirschfeld and of Martin Niemöller's famous poem) is picking up what you've started and they're running with it. You may not call yourself a homophobe, a white nationalist or an antisemite, but you're sitting awfully comfortably considering that those that do find your movement incredibly attractive.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
WarriorN · 27/02/2023 19:09

Women haven't been allowed to say no.

Not allowed to define their boundaries to not include males.

That's patriarchy in action.

Standing for women give platform for women to say this.

There has never been a civil rights movement that takes away rights from another group, except TRAs. Which is a men's rights movement.

bellinisurge · 27/02/2023 19:12

So the op sets out all the stuff about how mean people are with the "world is not flat" stuff. People point out that the world is not flat. Op thinks this is pile on. Can only speculate as to what satisfaction op has derived from this.

[with a deep bow of the head to Simon Edge and The End Of The World Is Flat - which I urge you to read if you haven't already]

nilsmousehammer · 27/02/2023 19:13

I strongly suspect at this point that it's been twisted around until 'patriarchy' now means 'women who say no'.

Hence the remarkable batshit of 'down with the patriarchy! Behead and exclude women!'

WarriorN · 27/02/2023 19:17

Debate is now dogpile.

HootyMcboob76 · 27/02/2023 19:22

"I have seldom felt more unwelcome..."

Why the actual fuck did you THINK you'd be made welcome?
You represent people who are telling women they have no right to safety, dignity or privacy. You represent people who think male feelings (overwhelmingly male as well as a few FTMs) trump that of biological females and their rights.
You represent people who think any man can identify as female and therefore IS female and able to access any space set aside for their protections.
You represent people who have threatened, doxed, intimidated, assaulted (at many rallies), threatened with rape and decapitation, tried (and succeeded) to get people fired from their jobs because they have dared to state a truth, and more.
Not the quite the impression of the rainbow fairy glitter happy joyous and beautiful crowd you talk about.
And then you go to a women's rights meeting, try to SILENCE women talking about their rights and worries by acting like a bunch of degenerates, and expect to be greeted with open arms?

Just what the hell were you expecting?
BEHOLD...a MAN has appeared to lead us into the light.

Down tools women! We are saved. Hallelujah.

Hoardasaurusterf · 27/02/2023 19:24

Bullshit about no Glaswegians at the rally! I’m from the west of Scotland and heard plenty of local accents as well as English, Irish & even Russian!

The gaystapo sign was quickly challenged and the guy removed .

Your post is so condescending & shows no awareness whatsoever about what women are protesting about! That particular rally was just after the whole pink leggings rapist in women’s prison debacle so women were quite rightly angry! Two of the speakers spoke about being locked up with huge men in Cornton Vale! Do you really think that is sccceptable? How is it justified to allow potential rapists (any man) easy access to victims? By allowing self id women are put at risk!

And how is this an ideology? Human beings come in two sexes! Males who produce small gametes and females who produce large gametes! This is scientifically proven fact ! The idea that people can have an innate gender which is different from their sex is the ideology here!

Humans can’t change sex!And gender is basically personality! Every person on earth has a different, unique personality. We can’t base laws and the ways society works on personality! Women need safe spaces away from males sometimes and protesting that these safe spaces are being infiltrated by men does not make me a fascist! Feel free to dress how you wish, dye your hair any colour, participate in any hobby you like but none of that changes your sex!

Thelnebriati · 27/02/2023 19:27

''Retaliation in the face of existential violence is to be expected''

''Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.''

Vintagevixen · 27/02/2023 19:31

It must be a very quiet Mondays night for all the TRA's today - loads of them on here tonight! Perhaps they should get back to their homework 🤣

Hoardasaurusterf · 27/02/2023 19:32

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:22

So go back to those thousands of other threads calling me and the people I love perverted degenerates, if it makes you feel good. I'm putting this here into your echo chamber to let you know what this moment in time is like for the other side.

Any posts on here calling trans people perverts would be removed! Can you show examples of these mumsnet posts?

Boiledbeetle · 27/02/2023 19:34

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:11

I think it might be healthy to document here the experiences of someone from the other side, and for you to pay it some mind.

I'm an early-twenties STEM student working in renewable energies, and outside of my course I'm a photographer and musician. I've travelled a fair amount and adore my home country of Scotland. Living in Glasgow, I have found a queer community of beautiful people who create a joy to everyday life I treasure.

At the beginning of this month there was a 'Let Women Speak' rally held here that some of you here attended; I have seldom felt more unwelcome and stripped of dignity than while in your crowd, carrying out my photojournalistic duties (images 1&2). While capturing Kellie-Jay Keen pathologising my friends as subhuman perverts and members of the crowd flaunting their homophobia and their use of dogwhistles (subliminal far-right messaging) I was being brazenly looked up and down, receiving steely gazes and pursed lips and hushed whispers behind my back. While photographing the first speaker after Keen, who began her piece portraying autistic people as children devoid of agency, I was approached by one of you who made it clear I looked too queer for their liking and was squaring up for assault. I made my way out at this point (captured at 8:42 here and 9:09 here).
The atmosphere your movement brought to George Square was one I've only before experienced while documenting far-right rallies in Eastern Europe, where I have been hounded through the streets and beaten up for the same reason. I assure you, your ideology would feel very much at home there.

At the other side of the square things couldn't have been more different, you were bathed in colour and music and hugs and laughter, the place is full of friends dancing and dressed resplendent in whatever camp pretty things they felt like (images 2&3).

Ours was a crowd of locals; I strained to hear a Glasgow accent in yours.

Ours is a city that at short notice manages to fill the top of Buchanan Street (image 5) in solidarity with the queer community - the last time I saw it like this was during COP26. It's one that fills George Square in a candlelit vigil for Brianna Ghey.

Your movement has meant I'm called a pervert and a groomer while going about my average daily life. Our morally vacuous, increasingly fascist political class (thinking also of Magnus Hirschfeld and of Martin Niemöller's famous poem) is picking up what you've started and they're running with it. You may not call yourself a homophobe, a white nationalist or an antisemite, but you're sitting awfully comfortably considering that those that do find your movement incredibly attractive.

Years of No debate.

Now you want to talk?

The Decapitate Terfs sign showed me exactly what the Trans Rights Activists think of people like me.

I'm done.

NO DEBATE

Happylittlechicken · 27/02/2023 19:37

Well, the op suggested we listened and paid him some mind. Nope sorry. When it comes to mansplaining scolds telling me to be kind…. The mind bank is empty.

terryleather · 27/02/2023 19:39

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:11

I think it might be healthy to document here the experiences of someone from the other side, and for you to pay it some mind.

I'm an early-twenties STEM student working in renewable energies, and outside of my course I'm a photographer and musician. I've travelled a fair amount and adore my home country of Scotland. Living in Glasgow, I have found a queer community of beautiful people who create a joy to everyday life I treasure.

At the beginning of this month there was a 'Let Women Speak' rally held here that some of you here attended; I have seldom felt more unwelcome and stripped of dignity than while in your crowd, carrying out my photojournalistic duties (images 1&2). While capturing Kellie-Jay Keen pathologising my friends as subhuman perverts and members of the crowd flaunting their homophobia and their use of dogwhistles (subliminal far-right messaging) I was being brazenly looked up and down, receiving steely gazes and pursed lips and hushed whispers behind my back. While photographing the first speaker after Keen, who began her piece portraying autistic people as children devoid of agency, I was approached by one of you who made it clear I looked too queer for their liking and was squaring up for assault. I made my way out at this point (captured at 8:42 here and 9:09 here).
The atmosphere your movement brought to George Square was one I've only before experienced while documenting far-right rallies in Eastern Europe, where I have been hounded through the streets and beaten up for the same reason. I assure you, your ideology would feel very much at home there.

At the other side of the square things couldn't have been more different, you were bathed in colour and music and hugs and laughter, the place is full of friends dancing and dressed resplendent in whatever camp pretty things they felt like (images 2&3).

Ours was a crowd of locals; I strained to hear a Glasgow accent in yours.

Ours is a city that at short notice manages to fill the top of Buchanan Street (image 5) in solidarity with the queer community - the last time I saw it like this was during COP26. It's one that fills George Square in a candlelit vigil for Brianna Ghey.

Your movement has meant I'm called a pervert and a groomer while going about my average daily life. Our morally vacuous, increasingly fascist political class (thinking also of Magnus Hirschfeld and of Martin Niemöller's famous poem) is picking up what you've started and they're running with it. You may not call yourself a homophobe, a white nationalist or an antisemite, but you're sitting awfully comfortably considering that those that do find your movement incredibly attractive.

Is that right, aye?

Musomama1 · 27/02/2023 19:41

OP misses the point. Some men are perverted or dangerous and a threat to women. We point out examples of this in TW to show that they too are male. TW pose the same risk as men. This risk from male strangers justifies single sex spaces. No one accuses women of menphobia in asking natal males to stay out of our spaces, we are pointing out an inconvenient truth and it might be inconvenient for you to acknowledge.

Women have never railed against the trans community until you overstepped the mark and insisted on being classed as actual women - and accessing their safe spaces and sports.

TheBiologyStupid · 27/02/2023 19:42

bellinisurge · 27/02/2023 19:12

So the op sets out all the stuff about how mean people are with the "world is not flat" stuff. People point out that the world is not flat. Op thinks this is pile on. Can only speculate as to what satisfaction op has derived from this.

[with a deep bow of the head to Simon Edge and The End Of The World Is Flat - which I urge you to read if you haven't already]

An excellent book!

Boiledbeetle · 27/02/2023 19:42

This thread reminds me of a poem I wrote last year after Evilbee told us to be polite whilst telling us off

Boiledbeetle 30/12/2022 00:01

BE POLITE IN OTHER PEOPLE'S SPACES

Be polite
YOU FUCKING TERF

Be polite
YOU BIGOT

Be polite
YOU CIS

Be polite
THESE HANDS DON'T DISCRIMINATE

Be polite
Be polite

NO FUCK OFF

WarriorN · 27/02/2023 19:43

I have seldom felt more unwelcome and stripped of dignity

This is what 13 year old girls feel when they're forced to share toilets with teen boys of up to 16 or even 18 at school. Due to "trans inclusive" policies.

Are you saying that adult male rights are more important than theirs?

WarriorN · 27/02/2023 19:47

Someone in science/ stem should really know the differences between male and female.

A male bolt can never be used as a female bolt.

Boiledbeetle · 27/02/2023 19:48

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:54

Their destruction will come about by the same political movement. Keen, who you lot rally behind, rubs shoulders with anti-abortion activists and white nationalists.

I know I'm catching up but

Zzzzzzzzzz

Happylittlechicken · 27/02/2023 19:49

@Boiledbeetle ive got cheese on toast for tea!!, finally managed to get out and buy some cheese 😀😀😀

EpicChaos · 27/02/2023 19:50

@TheShellBeach @Melroses

@Mum23amazingkids " For over 14 decades "

I was wondering exactly the same thing myself!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 19:50

This thread reminds me of a poem I wrote last year after Evilbee told us to be polite whilst telling us off

I have some illuminating narc rage meltdowns from here (which I think were all ultimately deleted) filed as screenshots. Was that the Long Live the Penis poster or one of the several charming posters who wished we would all die?

#WomenWontWheesht

SidewaysOtter · 27/02/2023 19:50

Oh dear, @invalide , this didn’t go as you’d hoped, did it? All these nasty women, failing to centre you and your special glittery feelings. Poor lamb.

Male is a physical descriptor while patriarchy is a social construct that needs to be taken down.

What, in the way that sex is a physical state while gender is a social construct that should be taken down? That sort of thing?

TheClitterati · 27/02/2023 19:51

Hey OP - answer me 2 questions then we can talk:

What's is a Woman?
Do you think women & girls have a right to same sex spaces?

littlbrowndog · 27/02/2023 19:52

Is it true that women are allowed to travel to listen to other women talking

what the bloody hell is going on ?

and some of them spoke in the wrong accent.

women nowadays. WATF.

thank god a dude came here to advise us how to behave 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 19:53

finally managed to get out and buy some cheese

I am expecting to see tweets and breathless news articles about how "cheese has always been a trans symbol" and has been appropriated by bad women for the purposes of their transphobia.

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