Anyone else hearing of backlash against trans ideology among their teens?

[KnittingDiva]

My 14 year old DS has been telling me that among his age group now there is no tolerance for Trans/NB TikTok influencers and that they are being ridiculed etc..

This is a very different attitude than when my older two (17 and 19) were at that age and it was the start of that trend and they would have been overtly respectful on that issue (would have avoided it mostly but not ridicule).

It seems it is now seen as being an 'older' person trying to be cool with the kids and a bit creepy.

Anyone else noticed this change or is it just here (Rep of Ireland)?

I teach autistic children and for many years y5/6 have been either very rigid about gender stereotypes (which we've had to tackle) or very relaxed about it.

One was very scathing about furries, (and used the word furries) when we watched a newsround clip of an autistic girl ice skating with her fox tail on.

But they're not teens.

I would be concerned if my DC were ridiculing trans and non binary children. What kind of a mum is so self-congratulatory about such bullying?

However, I'd also add that the majority of working class teens and children never bought as much into this in the first place. It is mostly the preserve of the privileged, middle class teen with clueless #bekind parents or status-seeking parents. In my experience, anyway.

The majority of our pupils are also from working class backgrounds. We only ever had one who boy who was persistent about wearing girls clothes and toys but was seen by the Tavistock pre crazy so nothing happened, reassured he was fine and interested in fashion.

Ridiculing the ideology, not the kids themselves.

As far as I can tell it’s creepy trans adults on TikTok such as Jeffery Marsh and Dylan Mulvaney who have turned thousands of teens off the whole trans shebang, rather than their vulnerable peers.

’Influencer’ celebrities aren’t always a positive thing.

I just think it worth being careful about hearing want we want to hear - most posters on here want teens to be GC like them.

I think it's a much more confused picture with regional and age differences and lots of nuance.

Aha! I've found my people!

I've been thinking about starting a thread for days/weeks and not known where to post - and fear of being called bigoted and phobic (I am neither, but I am a long time MNetter) - I wasn't sure if it was the right board to start a discussion on but if it is, I'll start a new thread.

I could not be happier to see a backlash. I fear my DD(14) is headed down this path with no brakes. I need brakes and if anyone can tell me how to stop this as i'm getting desperate.

She is a cliche of all the posts above. She had some issues returning after covid with anxiety at school and transition to high. Now 2 years on she is surrounded by this mess of a peer group where your 'issue' is a banner (usually rainbow coloured) that you wave with pride (no pun intended). Most of her friends are MtoF trans of the highest spouting order. It's like she's being brainwashed. At first she was just friends with them all - they are 'quirky' and cool, then one by one they've started to get more extreme and she's following - she now refuses to wear any gendered clothing, i've caught her wearing her bra and a sports bra over the top which is too small (is this an attempt at binding?), she reads non-binary books, writes non-binary stores,her friends are all they/them and have non-binary names, and although she denies she's trying to be trans (apparently she's insistent she's a she, but she won't conform to female stereotypes), I fear it's in the offing, basically.

There is no way it's declining in her school, in fact the epidemic is spreading like wildfire. One of her FtoM trans friends has got herself a boyfriend. A binary boy. So I asked DD what that means - is the friend and her boyfriend now a gay male couple? - cue massive eyeroll, 'don't be stupid, they are trans yes, but the boy is cis and hetro, and trans friend is OBVIOUSLY therefore bi-sexual, DUH' <massive sigh from me>.

It's contagious. And if someone was doing this to her over a religion i'd be allowed to stop it - but it honestly feels like she's being dragged into a cult and I have no idea what to do about it.

Bullying?

The entire ideology is ripe for ridicule. Many young people see that the Emperor is naked. They’re bored rigid by alphabet labels.

A fellow GC friend told me last week that she's seen a change in the feed back from her secondary age children - both who don't buy into this ideology but keep their heads down about it at school.

Apparently they told her whilst there is still a lot of sympathy for "proper" trans pupils, the NB identifying students are routinely being touted as the "they be babies" in reference to the chosen "they" pronouns and perceptions of infantile behaviour/demanding/crying if they don't get attention.

*sorry - should read most of her friends are FtoM transgender

DC3 16 when asked who identifies as trans or non-binary at school says "attention-seeking losers". View of entire friendship group. Not sold on TWAW, also not interested in the debate.

I should add that some kids use trans status to bully others, so this assessment doesn't come out of nowhere. DC3 is not on social media and, having spent a lot of time talking about proper online behaviour, would hope DC does not engage in ridiculing anyone online.

DC2 20 is at uni and eternally confused about the issue. Sometimes be kind and TWAW, sometimes not. Some friends falling on our side of the debate, others opposed. Was once 100% TWAW.

DC1 24 was once 100% TWAW as well but after life experiences in friendship group hit home the reality of male violence against women and the need for female survivors to have female-only services and spaces, now much tempered.

However, I'd also add that the majority of working class teens and children never bought as much into this in the first place. It is mostly the preserve of the privileged, middle class teen with clueless #bekind parents or status-seeking parents. In my experience, anyway.

I'm in a deprived very working class area and keep reading this on here and I really wish it was the case - it could be it's wales where there's a lot of top down stuff or maybe it's now in working class areas so that's outdated view- I don't know.

With DD1 peers it's the one with difficult home lives who seem to get swept up the most. BreadInCaptivity comments about NB identifying students attracting more skepticism I do agree with.

If anyone mentions trans around my 14yo ds, he rolls his eyes and changes the subject.

He's bored to death by the whole topic. It's just not relevant to him or the vast majority of teens. He doesn't comment on the various LGBT families near us and can't see what all the fusss is about.

My two older children (past teenage) have observed that all those they’ve come across who claim a trans identity are completely screwed up. That fits well with the information that’s starting to come from various “gender” clinics, where huge numbers of the children seem to have been abused or bullied by their families or guardians.

Sadly no. DS1 is gay and has totally drunk the kool aid and believes that challenging the idea of 'assigned the wrong sex at birth' is conversion therapy. In all other areas of life he is an independent critical thinker. But he did recently attend an LGBT fancy dress party as Harry Potter so he is brave...

DS2 was much more inclined to be critical until he fell in love with a woman who identies as male. They are adorable together and I really like and love 'them'.

My DD14 thinks it's all a load of nonsense. We both agree that it'll be interesting to see how many of the trans teens will still be trans within the next 12 months.

There's definitely a class divide re trans ideology. My ds goes to a school in a very working class area. Says there's one trans kid in his year of 200 kids.
My friends ds, similar background but goes to private school with mainly middle class kids is a member of the school lgtb club. Really goes to show how strongly influenced children are by their peers.
But yeah, the working class kids didn't go in for it in the first place really.
I remember my ds coming home from school aged around 10 saying 'mum, there's a man in a dress walking down our street'. Observant is my ds . What he didn't see was a woman and I wasn't about to start gaslighting him.

bucking the trend with the background thing. Very much working class area, quite deprived. DD is unusual in that she is taken to school from a village outside that area and in comparable terms we are middle class and affluent. Her/our family background is very stable, she’s never had a trauma, bullying or upheaval. Very boring traditional upbringing.

in her year (9) there are 10 FtoM trans kids.

if someone can bottle some backlash and send it over I’d be most grateful. I need her to get a cool friend who does some of the cynical eye rolling about it all - instead of all her peers who revere and then mirror the preaching ringleader.

DD (14) came home from school in an absolutely furious mood and half shouted at me that trans girls are not real girls and why the hell did she get into trouble for telling the trans girl no, she only dates real girls (DD is a lesbian and trans girl will not leave her alone, keeps demanding they go on a date and won’t take no for an answer). Told her I didn’t have a fecking clue but she was 100% correct. We’ve just moved house so moving her school now too thankfully.

My DDs (13, 18) can't stand Dylan Mulvaney and neither can their friends. They think Dylan mocks girls and that angers them. Oldest DD and friends have more sophisticated reasons (eg patriarchy, objectification of women) but younger teens see it as a grown man ridiculing them. They and their friends "hate watch" Dylan so makes me wonder how much Dylan's algorithms represent actual fans vs critical viewing. The girls who dislike Mulvaney the most come from a Muslim background and/or non-white family and say they can spot misogynistic behavior easier than white girls with liberal parents (their views, but I find a lot of validity in this observation). Plus, Dylan thinks Dylan is like Beyoncé so...yeah...they don't care for white men posturing "if she can, I can."

All think pronouns are stupid but try to use them for various reasons, the main one being social pressure. Another reason is they will do it for a friend who they worry is mentally unwell and a third reason cause "they will get in trouble" from school/work etc if they don't.

Youngest DD around age 12 got scared by a TW in a women's changing room who was being loud and dancing around. She just ran out and whispered to MIL "there's a weird guy in there." MIL and DD just left.

My oldest peaked at age 18 after male friend who identifies as woman started making crass comparisons and also thought sexual harassment was a compliment.

in her year (9) there are 10 FtoM trans kids

IME end of year 8 & year 9 are the ‘coming out’ years and then 6th form (if different location to school) are the ‘going back in’ years. I find myself wondering how many GCSE certs are going to have to be reissued due to desistence from the trans identity listed on the paperwork!

The older teens who ‘come out’ at uni I have yet to observe any patterns for, but in the pre-trans-as-fad era, 7 years is a much discussed average figure for when the fantasy bubble bursts (which if you start at 18/19, coincides with the brain’s frontal lobe reaching full maturity).

Interesting.

The closest case to home I know, her mother is a writer. I saw their daughter as a baby. Got in touch with the family some years later and with dawning silent horror and profound sadness worked out, as they spoke of BoysName but never of GirlsName that, no, they hadn't had a boy shortly afterwards...

Didn't say anything. I haven't walked in their shoes, it's not something I have useful personal knowledge of, I'm sure they meant to do the right thing. It was all way too late to make a difference even if I was an expert with superhuman powers of influence.

The older sibling works in mental health:/

Back in the day I too used to innocently take it all at face value, you know, the "born in the wrong body" stuff, and it's only relatively recently, after the physical experiences of living in my female body as an adult for decades including a perimenopause libido surge and then the less fun menopause, and seeing more people being trans IRL, that I came to the view that none of the current stuff makes sense. Like others I find myself drawing parallels with lobotomies or valium or thalidomide or the dark side of the "sexual revolution" that ended up with Jimmy Saville doing what he did.

DD13 is at a girls school and she and her friends refer to the “they/thems” in pitying tones…by all accounts it seems to be the girls who are unpopular/overweight/unhappy that get captured by the ideology. It is NOT seen as aspirational, more something to be pitied.

DS16 at boys school tells me they get bombarded with it at every PSHE session - “I swear Mum, PSHE is all about trying to sell being trans as a great lifestyle choice”. There is one boy who wears a dress to school and DS and his friends couldn’t care less - they see it as being very niche and can’t understand why so much time is spent on it. He reckons the school “has to do it” but secretly they all know it’s bullshit.

DS20 at university and says he never comes across is in his social circles…..totally not interested and 100% GC as are all his friends. He says they are in the majority and when he reads about how woke universities are supposed to be he reckons he must be living in a parallel universe…he thinks that twitter is a small echo-chamber of radical people. He has a few gay friends and they do not associate themselves with the trans brigade either.

It's from a sf short story. Something like 'I sexually identify as an attack helicopter'

He must be a reader 😀

My reply has been deleted by MNHQ. No idea why - I wasn't abusive, offensive and I certainly didn't misgender anyone! I said pretty much what many others on this thread have said which is that my DS is 15 and he and his friends have very little time for trans ideology and even less time for NB.

My teens and their friends despise they/them as it isn’t grammatically correct apparently!

There is one trans teen in DS14’s year, who is avoided and eye rolled at because she draws trans flags on all of her books, worksheets and if she can get her hands on them, the worksheets of the person sat next to her. It’s like a whole identity that is part of every conversation. The other kids don’t want that stuff rammed down their throats.

I genuinely believe that the majority of teens and adults find the whole thing absurd, but stay quiet so they’re not labelled as transphobic.