‘My son, 14, touched a girl’s leg. He was called a rapist.’ Sunday Times article (share token)

[EmmatheStageRat]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b698b306-af03-11ed-b94f-fc4969750d6e?shareToken=1876e207894ef2960e35de884ddb573d

That's right not choosing violence, means submission? Just Wow. Lets blame women and girls.

I know posters don't mean it like this when they suggest that women and girls fight back and use self defence and of course it's great to be assertive if you can be, but I don't feel it's much of a solution. I know it is often the only form of control we have and it definitely is worth pursing but it's putting the onus back onto women and girls.

Are we saying that if you are raped or assaulted that if you had been louder or stronger then you could have avoided it? We aren't of course but when you have experienced assault you already feel guilty and worthless and somehow responsible (IME anyway).

Also, self defence is useless when a trusted 'friend' renders you unconscious and assaults you. Which is a different circumstance to the article I agree but if the boy is taught that girls are loud and troublesome then him drugging them or taking advantage of them while drunk isn't such a reach. Especially when his father is a raging misogynist.

@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting
That's right not choosing violence, means submission? Just Wow. Lets blame women and girls
If you want to be a Quaker go ahead. We live in a world full of male violence. Men respect strength. Full stop.
@CanofCant the policeman went into these very scenarios and alerted women how to avoid them or what to do when passed out and waking to find a man on top of you.

I've experienced sexual assault and in my day we blamed men and empowered ourselves by learning to say NO! loudly, publicly, making scenes and taking defense courses.

Until men change; women need to train themselves, to protect themselves, to speak loudly and publicly and shame men and boys for porn consumption.

What did he suggest?

This could all have been avoided if the boy had kept his hands to himself.

Exactly, and his parents should be bloody ashamed of themselves for having raised a boy who didn’t understand boundaries of acceptable behaviour. He certainly shouldn’t be being taught to be “very very careful”, he should have it fucking drilled into him that he keeps his hands off women.

Fear and shame will not work to prevent or correct this. It's more likely to drive the behaviuor we don't want. Whilst in the 70s , 80's and 90's I would have had a similar view. I don't advocate violence, 1. My DC's are not getting assault charges for anyone. 2. It won't address the pattern of behaviour, just drive it underground as @CanofCant mentioned 3. Violence begats violence, and these days that won't just be a kicking a knife or acid might be involved. Social media amps thing up and keeps things going for much longer.

Blimey, the father really doesn't get it, does he?

it’s easy to understand how [the school's] first response was to slip into a defensive mode, wanting to protect itself from any suggestion that it was not taking alleged sexual harassment of its female pupils seriously

Erm, or perhaps it wanted to protect its female pupils??

The parents really should have done what the school suggested, and pulll the boy out into another school. With some serious discussions and soul searching, the boy could have learnt and moved on. Anyone else thinking he's on route to becoming an Incel now? That benefits no one.

Dammit YouTube isn't working with sharing
It's this video WOMENS SELF DEFENSE - MAN ON TOP ESCAPE

Nick Drossos Defensive Tactics
but the policeman taught us much more.
For me as a tiny weakling it was also crushing the nose and thumbs crushing eyes

I should caveat I am only talking about situations like the one above. Where you would come to physical harm, its appropriate to do whatever you need to.do to disable them enough to get away.

So, 'try it on and see how far she'll let you go?' 🙄
In any case, to suggest that it's always just as simple as saying 'sorry, not interested' to a male putting his hands or anything else where they're not wanted is frankly ignorant and dangerous.

It all starts with boys and men trying for victims. If girls are loud together, physically repulse and reject and call out a boy's behavior publically. He will stop. If he can grope schoolgirls,sexually assault them, and get away with it, he will continue.
After all that nice male poster stated a girl being quiet = yes!

I am teaching my son not to touch people without consent
He doesn’t need to be “very very careful” he just needs to not touch his peers without their consent

When I was about 13, a boy in my class put his hand on my chest and said, “flat!” I was mortified. When another girl heard about it, she was shocked on my behalf and told me he was out of order and I should report him. I didn’t, because I didn’t realise that this boy had crossed a line. I was just embarrassed and didn’t want anyone to know.

When I was about the same age (or slightly younger) another boy in my class pinched my bum, whilst sniggering. I didn’t realise he had crossed a line either. Once again, I was very embarrassed, but didn’t really react.

Anyway, we were all the same age, so my point is that the boys might not have realised how inappropriate their behaviour was either. I don’t think they should have been expelled. I think an adult should have talked them through their behaviour with taught them why it was wrong.

So that tactic was enough to allow you to escape? Unfortunately when I woke up I didn't think to do much apart from scream. Or perhaps you took those classes after you were assaulted, it has crossed my mind to.

I appreciate what you are saying and I do think there is truth in it to a degree but it is also simplifying matters.

For me the most upsetting/exhausting reality of it is that if a man wants to rape and/or murder you he will. It's by the grace the God that there are women who fortunately don't have experience of this. Have you seen the footage of Zara Aleena's killer stalking women before he murdered her? It's terrifying to watch. He was like a heat seeking missile.

I know that might seem off topic somewhat but with attitudes and excuses shown in the Telegraph article it's no wonder behaviour like this is nurtured by society in a way. When women are raped and murdered in high profile cases men are quick to condemn it yet allow all the tiny paper cut behaviour that adds up to a fucking guillotine.

FGS.

It's not complicated. Teach your children the same rules that apply as adults. I don't touch another adult on the thigh unless I am very sure that is wanted. I wouldn't do this at work, I didn't do it at school, and this boy is badly parented.

Why doesn't this 14 year old know not to touch girls at school? Crap parenting is all it is, but the parent has time to write about the fall out in the newspaper.

The dad comes across as an entitled misogynistic arse who is teaching his son to be the same, note how he just had to get in that it’s a private school like that’s gives his son the right to do what he wants.

Last year our 14-year-old son was accused of sexually assaulting girls at his school

That's because he did.

I found it hard to imagine him molesting or groping one

But he did.

He explained that he had put his hand on two girls’ legs, just above the knee and on top of their clothes

So, he did.

Neither had reacted in any way. They hadn’t told him to take his hand away

That's what often happens during sexual assaults.

another girl had seen both incidents and began telling others that he had been “touching up” girls

Because he was.

not just at being singled out for something that he had seen other boys doing on a daily basis

Just because other boys sexually assault girls, that doesn't mean it's OK.

he thought he was innocently flirting

No, that's sexually assaulting them.

He denied there were any others

Of course he did.

...his horrified reaction to hearing this accusation for the first time, and his categorical denial that he had ever behaved in such a way...

Oh, he said he'd only done it twice and the others simply HAD to be making it up about him, did he? Like no sexual predator has ever done that before.

accused of being a rapist, of “touching up” girls and of being a sexual predator

Two out of three ain't bad, I suppose.

Could all of this have been avoided?

Bit of a stab in the dark, but how about 'by not sexually assaulting girls'?

I don’t wish to downplay the importance of #MeToo, Everyone’s Invited and other platforms...

Uh-huh. Do go on.

The fact that society is now more likely to listen, believe and act on sexual harassment is a step towards giving women and girls the power to call out unacceptable behaviour.

Yes. Please continue.

But against this backdrop...

And there we have it. You downplaying it.

In the meantime, all we can do as parents is teach our boys to be very, very careful

I'll fix that for you. In the meantime, all we can do as parents is teach our boys to not sexually assault girls.

I never saw any evidence of this at my rough secondary modern. Our role was to laugh when the boys shoved their hands between our thighs as we came out of lessons. No way would I have confronted the ring leader. He was known for fights and kicking heads in very hard once the kid has hit the deck.

What massively winds me up about this piece is the author saying 'my son accepts he touched two girls. He now just wants to apologise and move on' with the implication that this should happen. On what planet is that how it works with sexual harassment/ unwanted touching? Or any misdemeanor. As long as the perpetrator wants to move on and say a quick 'soz' that means we all need to buck up and forget it.

I was discussing with my DP today that I might subscribe to the Times. I'm generally a bit more of a lefty but appreciate a range of well written views. I will absolutely not be giving them any money if this is the misogynistic bilge they publish.

I went to a rough school in the 80’s. Boys never would have put their hands on our thighs. They were generally not perverts. They were sexist but generally not perverts. What has happened to boys to make them think this is okay?

I agree.

It's back to the old days of "it's only girls - why should a boy's life be ruined because a couple of girls can't take joke" etc

No thought for the effect on the girls' lives, or their confidence or self-esteem.

Tw*tty father.

Tw*tty son.

Is it definitely the father speaking to the journalist and not the mother? Bizarrely when I read it this morning I assumed it was the mother for some reason - did I miss something?

He’s lucky he wasn’t expelled. He’s sexually assaulted multiple girls. If I was the parent of one of the girls I’d be furious he was still in school, that my daughter was having to see him in lessons, etc. He’d have been sacked if it was in the workplace.

I wonder what his mum would think if a colleague of hers was touching her bum and thighs at work?

I read the article and somehow took it very differently from most of you. There is nothing there that would say the dad approves of the boy touching the girls legs. His point is the outcome was disproportionately harsh for his son and I agree. He touch someone legs, of course there should be consequences, apologies, mandatory trainings etc, however police, child services etc. Threats of violence and rapist label are not deserved. The outcome for the boy, just a child, for what he did is very disproportionate and he doesn't deservice such sever consequences in my view.