The Witch Trials of JK Rowling

[CrossPurposes]

An in-depth intervietw with JK Rowling by Megan Phelps-Roper coming next week: twitter.com/meganphelps/status/1625465141046247425?s=20

Yes, you're right.

Once again, "we just want to pee" made an appearance.

What about prisons, hospital wards, and psychiatric hospitals?

I actually don't gaf where people piss right now, it's the prison issue that's of real concern.

Strikes me that NW is always on the brink of terfdom. Stuff like thinking women might have a point about men competing in women’s sports. I wonder if the regret around being interviewed was more to do with being scared about the shit storm that would have ensued if they hadn’t announced their regret prior to the airing of the podcast? I thought it was quite a sympathetic interview overall but NW is used to being in complete control of how things are framed and for this interview that wasn’t the case.

Didn't contrapoints actually say something like they can just about understand maybe the sport issue, but it depends how it's framed?

Honestly <snort> I don't think I'll ever be able to grasp what it's like to have such a massively heightened sense of entitlement.

Didn't contrapoints actually say something like they can just about understand maybe the sport issue, but it depends how it's framed?

That sounds about right. Still terfy though isn’t it? If NW fully believed twaw then they wouldn’t have any reservations at all.

Why do they always choose Noah and Leo as names? It’s rather noticeable.

Yeah. Apparently contrapoints came in for a lot of abuse from the trans community, themselves, for not being 100% TWAW.

You'd think it would give them a clue where women are coming from with regards to toilets, wouldn't you?

NW is used to being in complete control of how things are framed

Yes, I think this idea of controlling their image and the perception of it is at the heart of the whole ideology really.

Noah loved Harry Potter because 'It was so hard living in the real world'. Noah is still very young and still not living in the real world. What a stark example of the dangers of young teens spending so much time online and what a shocking dereliction of duty from the medical professionals who pushed them into transition.

Like Noah, Contrapoints has no understanding at all of what JK Rowling has said. They have a fixed idea that she is simply prejudiced against transpeople and no concept of the fact that she has researched and listened and spent a huge amount of time thinking about this. They see this purely from their own perspective of their 'gender identity' their 'true self' with no thought that maybe the world doesn't revolve around them or care how they perceive themselves. It is all so shallow.

Contrapoints interview is full of the emotive stuff, the poor me, JK is turning people against us with her 'hate'. But there is absolutely no practicality. Contrapoints is not a teacher or manager of a gym or a parent having to deal with the safeguarding nightmare caused by trans men and women wanting to use the spaces reserved for the opposite sex. Trans people would be accepted by all but the truly 'transphobic' minority who don't like men in dresses if they acknowledged that gender is not sex and that sex segregation is necessary in certain circumstances. It really is very simple!

I am looking forward to Jk's response.

Contrapoints pretty much said this. Addressing the violence of TRAs said their self image is very fragile, they're insecure about it, and if people don't affirm it, then they get very upset.

I mean honestly, I shouldn't laugh. And at least they're being honest.

But really. Where do these people get off?

Please affirm a complete denial of reality, which is highly detrimental to you, or we'll get violent. Ok? Okayyy.

Please affirm a complete denial of reality, which is highly detrimental to you, or we'll get violent. Ok? Okayyy.

Yeah, that doesn't work for me.

I’m having to listen to this week’s episode in instalments because I find Contrapoints’ ‘woman’ voice really irritating and the points being made (so far) are disingenuous and entitled.

Yes, I suspect I will do the same when I listen to it, CP is a very irritating person on a number of levels.

In the most recent section of episode 6 that I’ve listened to, I’ve heard Contrapoints explain the Wesboro Baptist Church to Megan Phelps-Roper and refer to JK Rowling as ‘Joanne’. This behaviour comes across to me as condescending 🤔

I also think Phelps-Roper is being less questioning than she has been in previous episodes - this episode is starting to feel more like a monologue than an interview.

Yeah, I agree it got a bit dull. They were both a bit all over the shop, contradicting themselves. Unsurprising, because none of it makes sense.

And nobody is talking about the elephant in the room. The sexism. The reason a non conforming female teenager wanted to be more masculine? What was the reason? Why did it suddenly feel so right when throughout their entire childhood they'd been fine?

Some years ago someone recommended Contrapoints as a good place for moderate opinions on these issues. I watched the recommended episode but kept being distracted by the 18th c. Marie Antoinette dress and powdered wig and lorgnette. And at the end Contrapoints, fully dressed, was lying in a bathtub of water still talking.

It was odd and I kept trying to understand what the additional messages in all that were supposed to be.

“Joanne” is a TRA thing. It’s a jibe.

Potter fans used to call JKR “Jo” because they know that’s what she prefers. As a sign of disrespect, her haters starting calling her “Joanne” all over Tiktok and other social media.

That’s why the clips from CP’s YouTube channel sounded like they were aggressively spitting “Joanne” more often than necessary. During the interview it was back to “J.K. Rowling” and “Jo”.

I watched the recommended episode but kept being distracted by the 18th c. Marie Antoinette dress and powdered wig and lorgnette. And at the end Contrapoints, fully dressed, was lying in a bathtub of water still talking.

Good Lord. Talk about stereotypes.

Funnily enough Noah's parents said something like can't you just be masculine and wear male clothes, without transitioning? Presumably trying to address the stereotypes.

Noah's response was something like no, I wanted to be called a male name and be addressed with male pronouns. Another one who needed the validation of everyone else in order to uphold their subjective fiction.

It doesn't work.

You can't make people do it, even if they are happy to. Some people will forget, and some people won't do it on principle.

You're setting yourself up for a lifetime of discontent. People should be telling these children that they cannot rely on other people for their self esteem.

Megan Phelps-Roper did not challenge her interviewees much, and what challenging there was was very gentle. I was left with the clear impression that she was working on their ground, on their terms and basically allowing them to give a full picture of who they were. She was probably not wrong to do this. The striking part was that I can not recall one bit of the podcast where either of the interviewees showed any consideration whatsoever for anyone other than themselves. Certainly, they did not address critically even one of the substantive issues that JKR has raised. Not one.

Phelps-Roper talks about Contrapoints "critiquing" JKR. But then goes on to play what is simply a reflection on how CP feels about it. CP talks about her impressions, and what effect she perceives JKR's comments as having had. That's not a critique. Sneering at a gross misrepresentation of someone's position is also not a critique. CP seems to show no insight whatsoever, not a glimmer of understanding that JKR is not arguing "against trans people" or that she herself has not actually engaged with any of the issues JKR articulated. She doesn't even seem to know what they are.

I am really looking forward to the next part.

Yes, I would have liked Megan to ask them both what specifically JKR has said that they find so objectionable.

Likewise all the other people providing soundbite responses to her 'transphobia'.

I know it's Megan's job to get people talking, but, so far, JKR's position has been misunderstood and/or misrepresented by everyone except herself.

And whilst I'm sure she will have her moment, I would have liked to see the fumbling required by her detractors when asked outright.

As it was, the gentle questioning elicited things like it's not what she says, it's people who misinterpret what she says, or the people who take what she says and roll with it, or she's not actually saying what she really means.

But it was glossed over.

I hope it's held up for more scrutiny.

Noah is 17 and fascinating. Understands the issues and seemed mature beyond their years. However, had 'top surgery' three months prior to the interview and admitted to mental health issues alongside the dysphoria.

This interview was heart-breaking. At 17 Noah still has no insight into the enormity of what they have done to their body and what they have given up. When Noah was talking about self-harming their body prior to transition, it was hard not to shout “and what do you think removing your healthy breasts is?” It was so sad. It’s clear their parents were urging caution. They’re so early in their transition, I sense Noah will eventually bump back down to Earth at some point, possibly in the next few years. I suppose at least Noah may be comforted by knowing how hard their parents tried to steer them on a less invasive path and also they seem sufficiently thoughtful to unpack it all. I hope they’re OK and continue to be well supported by their parents.

I have less time for contrapoints. Same old tired talking points and zero consideration of anyone else’s needs.

It was a funny old episode. Perhaps it will only make sense when next week’s completes the set.

I know it's Megan's job to get people talking, but, so far, JKR's position has been misunderstood and/or misrepresented by everyone except herself.

Yes, and that troubles me. I think Megan has been so desperate to take a neutral stance, she hasn’t challenged anyone about anything. Talk about splinters in her arse.

I hadn’t heard of her before this podcast. What kind of work has she done in the past to prove her interviewing ability? JKR must have chosen her for a reason, right?

I hope the final episode goes back to JKR and really gives her the floor.

If you read Megan's book about her childhood and her ultimate rejection of the Westboro Baptist Church, I think you get a good sense of why she doesn't go in all guns blazing.

I just listened to it and it was incredibly powerful. She's a very brave, fiercely intelligent woman and obviously such a genuinely good person. I think JK Rowling said she had read her book, too, and for me it's obvious why she would be willing to talk to her, although I don't think she's a journalist per se.

I don't think the podcast is supposed to be an argument for or against one side or the other, it's just conversations without hostility and attempts to steel man both perspectives.

Maybe she'll give a sense of her own thoughts in the last episode but I wouldn't be too surprised if she didn't.

I have been very worked up since listening to the interview with Noah, to the point of being snappy and mean with my (actually much loved) family members. I found it very distressing.
Two things stood out for me. One was Noah saying he found it unbearable to be perceived as a woman. Noah is seventeen years old. What he was experiencing was the sexualisation of a tween- and teenaged girl. It makes me so angry that the men who were perceiving this child "as a woman" suffer no repercussions, while Noah is left bearing so much suffering as a result.
The other was Noah saying that one of his father's concerns was that, if Noah transitioned, they would not, "meet the beauty standard." I hope I've mis-remembered, or misunderstood, or something, because I can't get my head around a parent having those sorts of aspirations and values in relation to their (then) daughter.
I did once work with a young woman who was questioning whether she was trans. She told me that, when she came out (as a lesbian) to her mother her mother didn't have a problem wit it, "but she told me, whatever I did, I better not become one of those ugly, butch women."

Yes I thought the same. Noah just reinforced everything that JK Rowling said, I wanted MFR to be more challenging, but appreciate she is trying to tread a fine balance. Noah said I'd had counselling for ages, for a year, I could've screamed, a year is a tiny amount of time.

Does it help to listen in instalments for this one? I am a little worried about it.