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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Scottish Prison Service announcement

74 replies

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/02/2023 17:32

All newly remanded/convicted prisoners will be held in a jail that aligns with their SEX at birth

Justnannounced BBC Radio4

OP posts:
Wonnle · 09/02/2023 18:23

What will Wee Jimmy Krankie say about that then ?

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 09/02/2023 18:29

But - what about those without any history of violence towards women?
No men in women's prisons. None. Ever.

Igmum · 09/02/2023 18:30

A good first step. Let's get it made permanent and keep prisons single sex

nilsmousehammer · 09/02/2023 18:39

ResisterRex · 09/02/2023 18:11

Also from that:

"at no point were any of the women in the care of the prison service at risk of harm"

IN THE CARE OF

No mention of the officers or staff.

Show quote history

Yeah that's not what the ex governor of a women's prison or women's prisoners are saying, is it?

maltravers · 09/02/2023 18:47

Temporary sounds to me “just long enough for the media attention to fade then we’ll be up to our old tricks and see if there’s a media fuss”. It’s about taking the heat off Nicola and the SNP.

maltravers · 09/02/2023 18:52

They don’t care about women, that’s for sure. We need to keep holding their feet to the fire on this.

Rememberal · 09/02/2023 19:15

Trans offenders will INITIALLY be placed according to their birth sex.

Maybe I'm being thick so please forgive me but I've been wondering about this for days now.

If the GRR goes through, then anyone can change their biological sex on their birth certificate so how would they / anyone actually know what their biological sex at birth was? Either on paper, or say for example they'd had all surgeries and passed quite well? (Or even a "butch" looking woman / effeminate looking male - if you checked their BC it would indeed tell you their sex but how is anyone to know it wasn't changed 5 years ago?).

maltravers · 09/02/2023 19:20

Do you mean held in a men’s prison for a few weeks just while they get their GRR? Nice.

NotRightNowNo · 09/02/2023 19:26

The BBC refer to the pretranisition person with the phrase ' when she was known as a man'. The linguistic shenanigans involved in that are just bizarre. I think they just mean 'man' . Known as a man? He was and still is a man! And always will be. On account of the biology.

BabyStopCryin · 09/02/2023 19:27

Shame they kept saying ‘gender at birth’ and other nonsense. Unless a baby pops out with a tiara, wig and belting out Liza Minelli showtimes, how can you tell?

maltravers · 09/02/2023 19:28

I assume this is to avoid a new scandal over the transgender butcher being held over that 11 year old girl and who may shortly be remanded to either a women’s or men’s jail.

latenightpartyrings · 09/02/2023 19:43

If it's possible to get your birth certificate sex changed, what do they go by?

ResisterRex · 09/02/2023 19:52

Perhaps they look into your soul, Lib Dem-style

MidsomerMurmurs · 09/02/2023 19:56

NotRightNowNo · 09/02/2023 19:26

The BBC refer to the pretranisition person with the phrase ' when she was known as a man'. The linguistic shenanigans involved in that are just bizarre. I think they just mean 'man' . Known as a man? He was and still is a man! And always will be. On account of the biology.

For the last couple of weeks the standard BBC reporting has been “when she was a man”.

The implication (laughable because everyone saw the photos outside court) is that the rapist’s “transition” involved some drawn out process, including radical surgery.

They’re persisting in this “when she was a man” line, so that busy people who aren’t really paying attention don’t notice that the transition involved no more than deciding to have a different name and buying a wig and some leggings.

ResisterRex · 09/02/2023 20:06

Telegraph top story. Link:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/09/scottish-prisons-abandon-nicola-sturgeons-trans-self-identification/

Headline and sub-headline:
"Scottish prisons abandon Nicola Sturgeon’s trans self-identification policy
Major Scottish Prison Service climbdown follows scandal of transgender rapist being placed in a female jail"

Part of the article:

"In a major climbdown following the scandal of a transgender rapist being placed in a female jaill_, the Scottish Prison Service (SPS) said it would disregard a prisoner’s gender identity when making initial decisions about whether to send them to a male or female jail.
The shift marks a major reversal of previous prison service policy in Scotland, which was heavily influenced by trans activistss_ and prioritised “social gender” over biological sex.
Trans prisoners in Scotlandd_ had previously been told they would be “allocated” based on their gender identity after being convicted or remanded.
It moves the regime for managing trans prisoners north of the border closer to the system in England, where ministerial approval is needed to send trans women to female jails in most cases.
The reversal also dealt a further blow to Ms Sturgeon’s push to allow Scots to change their legal genderr_ without providing any evidence."

And this is disturbing:

"Mr Brown said Bryson came into contact with no female inmates, but Ms Sturgeon was accused of presiding over a “whitewash” by refusing to publish the full report into the case because of fears over compromising the rapist’s “personal data”."

It reinforces the fact we don't know about female officers and staff, and seems to be testing reasons not to publish.

inkjet · 09/02/2023 20:27

news.sky.com/story/amp/women-not-at-risk-of-harm-when-transgender-rapist-isla-bryson-housed-in-female-only-jail-says-prison-service-review-12806993

Apparently women were at no risk of harm from Adam Graham. But did female prison officers have to strip search him?

Pootleplum · 09/02/2023 20:34

Sorry if this is already on the thread but IPSO are holding a public consultation on the guidance they give journalists on using sex and gender when reporting.

I'll try and post the link (having WiFi issues)

Original poster
BoreOfWhabylon · 09/02/2023 21:09

Thanks @Pootleplum. I'll have a good look at that tomorrow.

OP posts:
DuesToTheDirt · 09/02/2023 21:19

The BBC online headline is infuriating - "Trans prisoners in Scotland to be placed according to birth gender",

WTF is a birth gender?! Babies don't have a gender, they have a sex.

At least the interviewer in the clip calls it, several times, "sex at birth".

borntobequiet · 09/02/2023 21:48

I’ve complained about that headline. I’m in a complaining mood, I go through phases.

mrshoho · 09/02/2023 22:00

It does have the feel of damage control to take the heat out of the current damaging headlines. The fact that it is a 'temporary' ruling is not reassuring. Additionally it states they will be 'initially held' so no assurance that after assessment they will not be placed in women's prison. Also where would the GRR bill and self id fit as this legally changes a person's gender at birth on their documents AFAIK.

Namechangedforthisonetoday · 09/02/2023 22:02

NotRightNowNo · 09/02/2023 19:26

The BBC refer to the pretranisition person with the phrase ' when she was known as a man'. The linguistic shenanigans involved in that are just bizarre. I think they just mean 'man' . Known as a man? He was and still is a man! And always will be. On account of the biology.

I read something on here the other week along the lines of ‘if you have to do all these bizarre linguistic gymnastics, you can be sure as shit its because it doesn’t actually make sense’. I think that’s very apt!

ResisterRex · 10/02/2023 06:36

Telegraph has this on their front page. Not the lead story but it's on there

twitter.com/tmorrowspapers/status/1623813274541215750?s=46&t=TrtaUqNWcyalKug0H-LWhw