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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

“Cis” woman outraged over women-only FB Group for beauty tips

68 replies

NitroNine · 08/02/2023 09:09

I mean, if you’re hoping to go viral perhaps don’t literally announce it at the start of the video; but excellent work cramming in a concatenation of completely unrelated TRA talking points that sound even more incoherent than usual when the [performative?] outrage is about women daring to claim their right to homosocial spaces, specifically a FaceBook Group for sharing beauty tips for hooded eyes.

But this Instagrammer decided that the mere existence of this group is an affront. Calling it out publicly & repeatedly stating it must breach FB community standards is a blatant attempt to instigate mass-reporting to shut them down. (Posting here isn’t going to make it worse, this thread was brought to you courtesy of your one who thinks they’ve cervix & “female blood” & feck knows what else.)
This is an amazing - and shocking - video from Steph, a cis woman from Liverpool. She was on Facebook, and has found a make-up tips group “for biological women only.” Wow 😳 .Hitting all the home truths.

Low bar there for shock & amazement; & a neat reminder IW is in fact not at home to truth as regards biology + biochemistry, history, women’s lived reality & assorted other things. But IW thinks women should behave exactly like this: recite the mantras; roll out the red carpet for males to enter female spaces; be outraged should other women try to maintain boundaries; insist on making any & all spaces mixed sex because they’re fine with it [& it’s bigotry not to be]; refuse to believe the mountains of evidence.

I don’t wear make-up. I used to wear it when I was on-stage for amateur ballet performances, but I’d have to beg for help with it. Even so I can easily imagine why this is a women-only space: because even if you were to get a woman in there who barely knows which end of an eyeshadow brush to use, she’s not going to destroy the group dynamic in the way a male person, however they’re identifying, will. If she posts something & doesn’t get lots of replies/doesn’t consider them fawning enough she won’t have the screaming ab-dabs & accuse everyone of bigotry. She also won’t post inappropriate content to the group; nor send members inappropriate messages/images. (Not making up things there MN, those are real issues from fashion & beauty FB groups.) Muslim women who dress modestly are sometimes very into make-up - they’re not going to want to share a space like this with with TW.

The absolute burning rage at the idea women are saying no to males over anything, denying them access to anywhere, is quite horrifying. As is the fact there are grown women colluding in their campaigns to destroy any space, however small, that says “no”.

OP posts:
nilsmousehammer · 08/02/2023 09:12

There's a woman, refusing to soldier! How dare they want to be on their own, doing their own thing, instead of rushing to service males?

Yeah, the outrage at women saying no is quite amusing to watch.

ZombieMumEB · 08/02/2023 10:15

If it were that important - transwomen would start their own facebook group for hooded eyes.

Of course, we all know that what they really want - is attention and affirmation from natural women.

They also enjoy overstepping boundaries.

Plus they don't believe women should gather without centering men.

DarkDayforMN · 08/02/2023 10:40

That top comment from the instagrammer herself is so fucking ironic.

How can you have so much hatred for how SOMEONE ELSE lives their life when it has no real bearing on your life at all? Very very strange behaviour.

GOOD QUESTION. You should spend more time thinking about it.

NitroNine · 08/02/2023 10:40

The absolute incoherency of it was quite something. Bit worried about TW just wanting to wee in the Facebook group 😉

Funny that idea TW could have their own make-up group didn’t seem to occur. Indeed is it not the case that it’s just grand - indeed very important - for them to have their own groups to discuss their discrete experiences (which, in all seriousness, I agree with); but they utterly refuse to allow women the same? Effectively following someone screaming “I am not a threat!” at them & then hammering on the door of the ladies’ loos demanding admission is not the reassurance TRAs seem to think it is 🤔

OP posts:
Justme56 · 08/02/2023 11:11

I remember an article in the Times last year about an American TW who was part of a massive FB group of 20000+ TW. Maybe Steph could kick up a fuss about exclusion of ‘cis’ women from that!

FactsAreNotMean · 08/02/2023 11:17

I actually found that group relatively recently and the difference in vibe between that and certain other make up groups is very noticeable.

I used to be part of another large uk makeup group and the constant attention seeking posts from TW seeking validation (and Jack Monroe) destroyed it imo.

StuckInTheUpsideDown · 08/02/2023 11:22

I was on a large Facebook group around beauty as I had a passing interest. I don’t recall they were specifically sex or gender based but realistically vast majority of those interested would be biological women.

A few TW were regular posters. Their make up would typically be done badly or very gauche. Outfits not better, lots of short skirts etc. They would ask, clearly fishing for complements, “does it look ok?” And lots of women who no doubt just wanted to be nice to someone they assumed was struggling would all fall over themselves to assure them how amazing they looked. But really if I, as I biological woman, had posted pictures like that I would have been ignored or steered in the direction of finding ways to do it properly. After a while I felt like I was passively taking part in a penis haver’s fantasy rather than the group focussing on the beauty matters of actual interest to women. So I just left.

RinklyRomaine · 08/02/2023 11:24

FactsAreNotMean · 08/02/2023 11:17

I actually found that group relatively recently and the difference in vibe between that and certain other make up groups is very noticeable.

I used to be part of another large uk makeup group and the constant attention seeking posts from TW seeking validation (and Jack Monroe) destroyed it imo.

I miss that group! It got bloody ridiculous.

Norma27 · 08/02/2023 11:51

I knew it was that fb group! The admin is amazing and I know her! She stands no shit on this issue!

MichelleScarn · 08/02/2023 11:57

I think I was in that group too, and yes the TW posting in outfits that no-one could have thought were appropriate or flattering but getting 'stunning/brave/gawjus(sic).' hun!!

Was ridiculous!!

JacquelinePot · 08/02/2023 12:01

Doesn't the latest Raquel Rosario Sanchez ruling mean that single sex clubs are legal? If so, would it apply to online groups? Not that that would stop virtue signalling tools kicking up a fuss

FactsAreNotMean · 08/02/2023 12:46

Norma27 · 08/02/2023 11:51

I knew it was that fb group! The admin is amazing and I know her! She stands no shit on this issue!

I've seen a few posts on the group from people saying they appreciate the woman only space too.

Norma27 · 08/02/2023 13:08

FactsAreNotMean · 08/02/2023 12:46

I've seen a few posts on the group from people saying they appreciate the woman only space too.

Definitely! I love it when someone moans about it and the admin doesn’t back down and just chucks them out!

dunBle · 09/02/2023 03:55

JacquelinePot · 08/02/2023 12:01

Doesn't the latest Raquel Rosario Sanchez ruling mean that single sex clubs are legal? If so, would it apply to online groups? Not that that would stop virtue signalling tools kicking up a fuss

It wasn't a ruling IIRC, they just settled, so no precedent would have been created.

Justme56 · 09/02/2023 06:09

Single sex associations are legal. Look up the reasons why Section 35 was used against the Scottish GRR. There is a whole section on how the Bill could impact single sex associations in different parts of the UK.

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 06:11

I’m in that group! It’s a lovely gentle space where people just help each other with makeup and that’s it. The fact it’s away from the male gaze gives a lot of the women there more confidence I think to post make up free or just be themselves. Gender, identity etc is not mentioned, it’s just literally make up, if TW want a space like that, no one is stopping them.

PriOn1 · 09/02/2023 06:20

”it’s just grand - indeed very important - for them to have their own groups to discuss their discrete experiences (which, in all seriousness, I agree with); but they utterly refuse to allow women the same?”

I think, possibly, this is also related to a deep seated paranoia that, given single sex spaces, most women will gradually move over to them. Given the comments on this thread, and the male pattern behaviours exhibited by so many men who claim they are women, that seems quite likely.

PennyFarthings · 09/02/2023 06:52

This instagrammer is incorrectly assuming there is a distinction between "women " and "biological women ". To see a distinction, you'd need to believe trans women (biological males) are women, and that isn't a fact. Trans women are biological men, so it follows that they could set up their own hooded eyes make up group. They won't though, they want to be in the women's group.

I've read this instagrammers comments and she's very mocking of the women in the group, for the very advice they are seeking. Trans women are also mocking the women and agreeing amongst themselves how much better they are at their makeup than the women.

They didn't get the be kind memo. But the women really must remember to be kind.

Piss off.

journeyofinsanity · 09/02/2023 06:56

Completely separate to the discussion, I'm on that group for reasons I do not understand as the women on it seem to spend the whole time telling each other that they don't have hooded eyes. It's the battiest group I've ever been on

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 06:59

that not my experience in the group @journeyofinsanity some do that, but many others are a lovely. If you don’t like it, why not leave the group. Or are you only there to mock us ‘batty women’ who are actually there to learn new techniques?

Fancylike · 09/02/2023 07:11

StuckInTheUpsideDown · 08/02/2023 11:22

I was on a large Facebook group around beauty as I had a passing interest. I don’t recall they were specifically sex or gender based but realistically vast majority of those interested would be biological women.

A few TW were regular posters. Their make up would typically be done badly or very gauche. Outfits not better, lots of short skirts etc. They would ask, clearly fishing for complements, “does it look ok?” And lots of women who no doubt just wanted to be nice to someone they assumed was struggling would all fall over themselves to assure them how amazing they looked. But really if I, as I biological woman, had posted pictures like that I would have been ignored or steered in the direction of finding ways to do it properly. After a while I felt like I was passively taking part in a penis haver’s fantasy rather than the group focussing on the beauty matters of actual interest to women. So I just left.

This is what happens in any women’s group that trans males jam themselves into. Not just makeup and fashion groups, but knitting, car mechanics, Labradors, bread baking, judo, bird watching. Whatever the interest, if it’s specified that the group is for women, then the transwomen will flood with photos of themselves. And of course there’s a pile on screaming transphobia if someone asks why they are posting selfies, given it’s not a usual kind of post. The self obsession has no bounds.

Not noticed this phenomenon with them posting unrelated selfies in more obviously mixed groups…

Shroedy · 09/02/2023 07:13

journeyofinsanity · 09/02/2023 06:56

Completely separate to the discussion, I'm on that group for reasons I do not understand as the women on it seem to spend the whole time telling each other that they don't have hooded eyes. It's the battiest group I've ever been on

I was done with the group for that reason, before I heard the equally batty admin went on a rampage - very few actual tips! The debates over whether someone had hooded eyes were incessant!

journeyofinsanity · 09/02/2023 07:29

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 06:59

that not my experience in the group @journeyofinsanity some do that, but many others are a lovely. If you don’t like it, why not leave the group. Or are you only there to mock us ‘batty women’ who are actually there to learn new techniques?

Seems I'm not the only one on this thread who found the group batty. The makeup advice is on the whole very amateurish and the arguments on who has and who has not got hooded eyes is most bizarre. Why don't I leave? The entertainment value I guess. The admin is quite bonkers and her makeup is horrifically bad

ICanTuckMyBoobsInMyPockets · 09/02/2023 07:42

I used to be in that group, or one very similar, and I left it because every third post was a bloke showing his ridiculous make-up with his 'cleavage' being the main focus. Then some other full body shots where the mini skirt barely covered their testicles.
Hundreds and hundreds of comments "OMG so gorgeous" and "You do it far better than most others here"

I think I posted here about leaving, it was so frustrating.

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 07:57

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