Maya’s response to Radical Notion’s GC divisions

[HiccupHorrendousHaddock]

I thought this was a very interesting answer to the recent issue of RN.

Shout out to the vipers and their Mumsnet Feminism within!

mforstater.medium.com/on-gender-critical-disputes-db2e456ad9cd

We were (grimly) joking about Sturdy Pyjamas as a sexual assault prevention method for months following Professor Whittle’s Peculiar Mumsnet Lectures.

There was a suicide-baiting in the Guardian episode that spilled over here too.

They should offer Swhittle a spot in The Radical Notion.

Agreed. In my opinion this always sorts the academic wheat from the chaff when all to often the aim is to bamboozle the reader with the authors intellect. Really intelligent people can simplify the complex.

*too often

I find it interesting seeing this comment on page 11

Yes, sociopathy is clearly a major factor.

Hmmm. If it was Debbie from Bristol...

That Debbie is definitely Hayton.

Debbie posted for a while but it became clear that his presence was seen as a contributing to a negative atmosphere and women made that clear

If he’s still here it’s lurking or with a secret username.

IIRC, there has been a count-on-one-hand-number of male TS posters since the 2018 GRA consultation stuff who were positive contributors.
They’ve all excused themselves realising that this isn’t their space and that they need to deal with the bad actors in their community and fight unwelcome law changes via their own specific activism, not involving themselves in ours (shout out to Jennie, Leanne & especially Hamster wherever you are!)

Not sure what a shire wife is, hope it involves hanging out with one of these lovelies: www.royalparks.org.uk/whats-on/blog/meet-richmond-parks-shire-horses

Compare and contrast the wordy waffle of the pure academic feminists with those at the coalface, ie Southall Sisters.

Not read the other thread and not sure if this has been posted, but it is by hatpin woman:

loreleihatpin.substack.com/p/disputes-and-kumbaya?sd=pf

I’m a member of the editorial team at the Radical Notion, and a feminist, but before publication I read the pamphlet and asked for my name to be removed from it. I think it’s important for every woman to speak for herself on these kinds of knotty issues and my position on it is not the same position as the one the Radical Notion took.

They should offer Swhittle a spot in The Radical Notion.

They probably will.

This sociopathic vibe is why I find ‘Trans Britain’ so hard going to read. They are all the same.

Agree. I see it as part of the pathology.

This is exactly what I think when I read Sheila Jeffreys or listen to Helen Joyce. I am in awe of their powers of articulation to take all this complex analysis and bash out point after point in such a clear and accessible way. Both incredibly intelligent women.

If I remember rightly, regarding our concerns about teenaged boys sharing tents with girls at Girl Guides, Whittle thought you just need to supply the kids with condoms and be done with it.

One poster on that thread recommended sturdy pyjamas, that's how much allies of TRAs value child safeguarding.

That is really interesting dungs.

Because maybe people like Lorelei, if there is any like her, is the reason that there seems to be more balance in the quarterly magazines?

Whittle? The one who confessed to having sex with the scouts at camps at 14 or 15 years old?

I would not trust Whittle to ever know what good safeguarding protocols were. They seem to laugh that they used to do this as if it was one big joke.

Whittle? The one who confessed to having sex with the scouts at camps at 14 or 15 years old?

I would not trust Whittle to ever know what good safeguarding protocols were. They seem to laugh that they used to do this as if it was one big joke.

I don't know who it was who said it but it just showed how they think children and young people are totally expendable.

Jeez, I didn't know that about Whittle - a certain type of behaviour is really showing itself as a feature not a bug isn't it.

Yes. Whittle is on record for their activities as a girl guide, or they too could have been a scout, at that age.

Perhaps Swhittle had good reason to plead privacy and illness to the journalist contact I mentioned upthread when she was looking to do a serious profile.

I really feel like there’s time for falling out and getting factional among feminists… which is only once massive gains have already been made for women. It’s certainly not now, we have to publicly and privately focus on sorting out the shit that has happened to women and girls.

I don’t think it’s any surprise that academics write better for a professional academic audience, or public speakers connect better with a public audience, etc etc. So fucking what? There are millions of different audiences that need to be reached out there.

I see no reason why these groups have to bitch about each other (and Maya’s piece saying she’d rather choose being effective or whatever it was, than not and complaining about Radical Notion’s long-windedness is not above that)
I haven’t got time to read the Radical Notion right now either.

However like many of us on here, i really need to hear new public policy solutions and to have lots of other women that I can join in with, to do the advocacy to be done to get them adopted. Like many of us I have young female relatives, some of whom have already got on board with the gender identity juggernaut, I have an employer who is constantly coming up with D&I initiatives which completely ignore the reality of women’s lives and I want to be able to leave this world a more woman-friendly place than when I came into it.

So I rely on the public feminists of today to please help to fucking sort this mess out. I couldn’t give a shit who likes who. These spats just look pathetic to anyone outside the immediate bubble and make it easier for feminist groups to be ignored. People in political parties fucking hate each other but they understand that nobody is likely to be sweeping in to power with just their best mates.

The power to sort this situation out that women and girls are facing lies primarily with Parliament and the courts. And they really don’t listen to factions. They only want to listen to united voices giving clear messages. We can’t afford time on this self-indulgent territorial pissing. I really hope that this latest flurry ends soon. It’s a massive self indulgence.

Just read Maya's article and the thread. I agree with every word that Maya says.

While reading it I'm also aware of a sense of maturity that comes with conceiving, bearing, birthing, feeding and raising a child. There is a necessity of engaging at some level with your child's father, and there is (usually) an overwhelming sense that nothing matters more than your child and a recognition of that sense in other mothers. So we learn to negotiate on behalf of our kids, while understanding that other mothers feel similar for their own.

I think this is unknown territory for many of the Radical Notion's target readership. (I believe Julie Bindel is said to have referred to KJK as a "boring middleclass breeder") Many of whom seem to live or strive to live without men in their lives. But motherhood IS the reality of being female, or it always would have been pre readily available contraception and the right to abortion. And mothers love their sons and want them to have relationships with their fathers.

I really think this is not understood well enough by those who have not become mothers. There is a naivety or a missing piece. They act as if the reproductive function has always been a choice, it hasn't, or as if the caring of children including fathers is somehow optional (it isn't). I know it will annoy people to say it. I'm definitely not saying childless women are not women, and of course it IS a choice now. But I think this is worth saying. I think Maya has almost said this but stopped short. Probably predicting the fall out!

Feminism has never known what to do about mothers, especially those of us that don’t want to outsource our childrearing to other, minimum wage, women for 40 plus hours a week.
Easier just to dismiss us as bovine breeders, I suppose.

I think it’s worth recognising that some right wing politicians have very obviously hijacked this issue. This is going to become more of an issue as campaigning for the US elections becomes louder.

People draw their lines in different places, but a line does need to be drawn.

It’s the old Venn diagram that has been shared many times. Some Sexist idiots recognise sex, some don’t. Neither group is really interested in helping women.

I’m not willing to put Miriam Cates, Jackie Doyle Price, Kemi Badenoch on the other side of my line, just because they are Tories tho.

I don't believe being a mother yourself is the factor - two of the most toxic contributions I've seen to this argument ('domesticated zombies' and 'pound shop Marine Le Pen') have been from Ruth Serwotka and Sarah Ditum who I believe are both mothers. But yeah I think it's something to do with your attitude towards, and your respect for mothers, especially SAHMs.