Times: “Isla Bryson is Sturgeon’s Poll Tax moment”

[SidewaysOtter]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8cc04a2-a4a5-11ed-9d5c-69bd3c5b98b3?shareToken=0d217dc3eb76e6c335f8de48824ac0ef

Interesting that it would seem the SNP are realising that this is immensely unpopular amongst its voters and the general populace.

And it shines yet more light on Sturgeon’s ridiculous “Trans women are women except when it doesn’t suit my political ambitions they’re not” standpoint, as well as how women’s fears were dismissed only to be found entirely valid.

“Almost lost in the debate are transgender and transsexual people, who will no doubt be pained by headlines associating identity changes with rape and violence against women.”
Yes, this aspect makes me sick. Further marginalisation and misery. The extremists and misogynists have a lot to answer for and so many of them are no more trans than the rapist whose incarceration in the female estate kicked off this latest hoo ha.
But please also can we avoid the use of ‘people’ here. The issue which afflicts us is concern about biological males and their antics. If that opens me to criticism then call me a misandrist, but I have no concerns about transmen! The TRAs must not be able to conflate the realistic caution which women, and in particular mothers have in respect of stranger males who insist on access to places where women or children are alone or in a state of undress with transphobia.

“Almost lost in the debate are transgender and transsexual people, who will no doubt be pained by headlines associating identity changes with rape and violence against women.”

Yes. But they are going to have to face, like everyone else, that some men who are transgender and transsexual are also rapists and commit crimes of violence against women.

The two cannot be nicely separated into groups. And women cannot pretend away this bit of reality because it's upsetting.

It's the NAMALT and 'don't talk about rape and violence against women cos hurty feelz for nice men who don't like hearing about it and having to take some responsibility' thing. Tough. This is going to have to be faced up to.

Those "pained" by the headlines can take up their problems with one of the many many organisations that have pushed self-ID:

Stonewall
Mermaids
LGBT Foundation
Gendered Intelligence
GIRES
Global Butterflies
Pink News
The MPs (we all know which ones)
The staff networks policing thought via Stonewall

The list goes on and on. Take it up with them. It's not us. Not my responsibility to ease their pain from what? Reading some headlines? Sorry but it isn't. Like everyone else here, I'm concerned about women and children. Let's not forget all the (mostly) women who've lost their livelihoods because of these organisations and this ideology. They owe us an apology. Along with trans people who are now "pained".

A lot of people are hurt by the discussion. Including disabled women who are called bigots for wanting same sex intimate care. Including teenage girls who are being gaslit into accepting naked men in women's public bathrooms and changing rooms. Including women whose first language isn't English or who haven't had a great education and who don't realise that a "person with a cervix" is them, so they miss cervical screening. Or women in prison who are likely traumatised by male violence in their lives who are not even considered in risk assessments of transwomen prisoners.

“Almost lost in the debate are transgender and transsexual people, who will no doubt be pained by headlines associating identity changes with rape and violence against women.”

But that isn’t a reason for women to have to accept men in women-only spaces, it’s a reason for transgender/transsexual people to come to terms with the idea that a) some transgender people are rapists/sexual predators and the two are not mutually exclusive, and b) when there is a conflict of rights, the path of least harm needs to be taken. The right of women not to be assaulted and raped vastly outweighs someone else’s desire not to be offended.

Joan McAlpine in the Sunday post:

'A former SNP MSP has warned Nicola Sturgeon must accept “personal responsibility for her personal passion” after driving through laws making it easier to change gender.

In bruising criticism, Joan McAlpine said the first minister has risked the safety of women and the independence cause by making the legislation a flagship issue for her government'

www.sundaypost.com/fp/former-msp-warns-fm-must-own-gender-id-fallout/

From The Times' article:

'The latest YouGov poll, of 1,088 voters in Scotland from January 23 to January 26, found that Sturgeon’s approval rating had slipped into negative territory, from +7 to -4, since October. In the space of a month, support for the SNP in the next Scottish parliament election had fallen from 50 per cent to 44 per cent in the constituency vote, and from 40 per cent to 36 per cent in the regional vote and from 43 per cent to 42 per cent for Westminster. The poll also showed a reversal on the independence question over past month, with support for secession down from 53 per cent to 47 per cent among those expressing a view — the lowest since last spring.'

Transwomen should be directing their hate to the perverts who have caused the issues rather than the people who want a solution which doesn’t involve jeopardising women’s safety.
The idiots are realising too late that Feminists were the allies they really needed rather than blue haired clueless handmaidens who would just agree to anything

Almost lost in the debate are transgender and transsexual people, who will no doubt be pained by headlines associating identity changes with rape and violence against women.

TW are five times more likely to have been convicted of a sexual assault than non-trans-identified males. One in 585. Those are just the ones who've been convicted.

This has been a men's sexual rights movement from the beginning.

I feel compassion for the children and young people who have been caught up in this. But adult males pretending to be women do not inspire my compassion or empathy, not even the "nice" ones.

You can hardly blame the general public for thinking the trans community has a problem with sexual predators if the campaigners for self ID have no workable solution to deal with the problem of gatecrasher's but instead keep telling us 'it never happens' when it's obvious to all it does happen and often. It makes the predators look like a feature not a bug.

Absolutely. The self ID lot have done this to themselves.

Its the cake and eat it too problem.

Either trans is entirely a person's choice and feeling irrespective of who they are, what they do, what they've done, which makes the group as a whole inevitably containing of those flat out dangerous to women and unable to use women's spaces

or

trans is something strictly gatekept, in the expectation of those males using women's spaces not actually being a direct threat to those women's life and limb.

It can't be both.

This totally ignores that the bar for women's rights is set so low that it's even being quibbled about as whether not actually being raped or beaten up or killed is a sufficient reason to say no to men. Or that women are excluded even by fully transitioned, delightful and entirely safe males in their spaces. But it shows the utter unreasonability of the TQ+ political position.

And why women are now so totally fed up that they're fairly clear about no, no males, at all, ever, find other solutions, and repeal the GRA.

Come the local / GE, people will vote accordingly 👍

The coverage continues:

Trans rapist row hammers support for Scottish independence as Nicola Sturgeon feels the force of voters' anger at row over whether criminals who carried out sex attacks as men should be allowed in women's prisons
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11715153/Trans-rapist-row-blow-support-Scottish-independence-Nicola-Sturgeon-feels-voters-anger.html

Eat humble pie over trans law, SNP critic tells Sturgeon

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/688eec4e-a575-11ed-9311-522a2d54b6fd?shareToken=dbd6036129c477404123c21ec9c21aeb

Nicola Sturgeon’s approval rating plunges in wake of trans row

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/05/nicola-sturgeons-approval-rating-plunges-wake-trans-row/

Posie thanking Nicola Sturgeon is the second biggest story on the Daily Mail home page:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11715379/Womens-rights-campaigner-Kellie-Jay-Keen-thanks-Nicola-Sturgeon-waking-Scotland-Glasgow.html

I don't know if this comment by Alex Bell from yesterday's Sunday Times has been shared yet. He is coming at it from the perspective of an independence supporter:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/54ab28e0-a4b3-11ed-ab5a-a67b5932bebd?shareToken=77426cffe1aad3b9f7f200976cd8a67a

Also Jim Sillars' comment:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/584e6032-a4a1-11ed-ab5a-a67b5932bebd?shareToken=ecc065b77a8f8f3fb8383d6c503bda1d

I find this article by The National extremely interesting. It looks pretty fairly balanced. Not something we see very often from The National. 🤔

www.thenational.scot/news/23300695.glasgow-gender-critical-rally-met-trans-activist-counter-protest/

I missed those, thanks @Igneococcus

Also of interest here:

twitter.com/oceanbreathcafe/status/1622523304836837376?s=46&t=wg5qFCvAyMg2kSB2pgwlTg

"Is this the end? 🤞🏼

Nicola Sturgeon set to host another press conference"

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-set-host-press-29126168

"
Nicola Sturgeonn_ will be taking to the stage once again today, allowing the press to put questions directly to her in a break from normal practice.
...

Ms Sturgeon has so far used the platform to directly criticise the UK Govts opposition to her Gender Recognition Bill without the style of rebuttal normally reserved for Holyrood debates.
Not even members of the press are allowed to request follow-up questions while the live stream is fed to Scots through the Scottish Goverment Twitter feed.

With her party's stance on gender on even shakier ground than it was at the last February 23 briefing, there is little doubt that it once again dominates questions, along with ongoing speculation that she is crumbling under the pressure of her unpopular policy."

@Needmoresleep nails it. Sex is Fundamental and everyone just knows it. It's like denying gravity.

An Antigravity Party would be great fun actually. But they won't win elections.

Unfortunately though 45% will still vote for them and the Greens combined so
nothing will change.

The constitution is still the main driver for most voters.

That's largely true, but I'm a pretty bog standard person. Generally finding myself in a fairly central position on most issues.

On the issue of Independence, it made sense to me, especially as things got more right wing and neoliberal in the rest of the UK and I welcomed the idea of an independent Scotland with a plurality of voices that reflected out voting demographic. I held my nose to some extent on the basis that once Independence was achieved I would likely revert to Labour (or the equivalent).

Anyway, turns out I care more for women's rights than I do for independence and the ballot box is still private so I can't be bullied and shouted at that I'm on the "wrong side of history" there.

I think the Greens may particularly suffer tbh. A lot of people cast their list vote for them because independence+ environmental issues. Maybe that's why they're staying so quiet now, or maybe Sturgeon's told them to shut up and try not to make it worse.

That 45% are certainly not independence at any cost - the thing that might keep them propped up though is Scottish Labour being just as bad on this issue. It's a very big leap for some of us to vote Tory but I might find myself holding my nose again.

Press conference details

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/nicola-sturgeon-press-conference-how-to-watch-nicola-sturgeon-briefing-today/ar-AA167D6p

"Nicola Sturgeon speech: What time is Nicola Sturgeon press conference?
Nicola Sturgeon will address the media around 11:30 this morning.

How to watch Nicola Sturgeon media briefing live stream?
Nicola Sturgeon will hold the press conference at 11:30 – which will be available to watch on the Scottish Government live stream via the @ScotGov Twitter feed"

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