Elite sports people speaking up!

[Signalbox]

There seems to be an increasing number of sports people speaking up about the problem of males completing in women's sports which is positive. Thought it might be useful to have a thread of those who are risking sticking their heads above the parapet. Obviously the likes of Sharon Davies, Mara Yamauchi and Martina Navratilova have been bravely doing this for sometime but now we appear to have a few current athletes as well who are prepared to risk the mob to ensure women have fair competition. Is it too much to hope for that there will be a snowball effect?

I saw that Alex Storey v Tatchell clip on YouTube and had to play it twice for the sheer lols.

Tatchell looks like a right twit.

The tiny, weak male claiming to be a woman can go and be tiny and weak on the men's team. Except he wouldn't actually make the team. He's only in the women's team because of male advantage, which is why males are excluded as a class.

Even if a tiny weak TW has no physical advantage

Even the tiniest weakest TW will still have had the advantage of a male puberty compared to an elite female and even if the TW comes last in every race that advantage still exists.

Bet you Tatchell's friend will be a decade or so older than everybody in the team as well.

Why is Tatchell being interviewed?

Hes not trans, not a woman and not an athlete is he?

I suspect Tatchell’s “friend” only exists in Tatchell’s imagination.

He seems to be the only TRA willing to speak on camera.

No Debate ( unless you invite Tatchell, then it’ll be Crap Debate).

I know that there is always a physical advantage - I remember as we hit puberty that one by one the boys that I could out run, out jump, challenge 50/50 suddenly were like faster and stronger even when they were shorter and smaller than me.
The problem is if we try to test it TW are going to hit/kick/run/throw 'like a girl' probably whilst giggling a la Dylan M and 'prove' how ladylike they now are.
But even if there was no physical advantage TW don't belong in women's changing rooms or pushing out women from cultural backgrounds that don't allow them to mix with men. PT case by case basis is so flawed, do we let a TW compete if they are a good as the best woman, or only if they are not quite as good as her or only if they perform at the female average? In a team sport how the hell do you measure that? It's a complex mix of speed, strength and skills and totally unskilled TW player would still be crap despite there male physical advantage.

PT case by case basis is so flawed, do we let a TW compete if they are a good as the best woman, or only if they are not quite as good as her or only if they perform at the female average?

It’s so flawed. I wish someone would ask him this question but they never do.

How do we get Sharron Davies upgraded from current MBE?

Can you leapfrog over the C and the O? I would love to see her get a Damehood, frankly.

She’s become such a fantastic campaigner for women & girls in sports (and beyond) and at great personal cost. She deserves some serious recognition.

I honestly think that PT's position is that TW participation in women's sports is acceptable provided that it doesn't lead to competitor dominance that's greater than the extremes of what we've historically seen in single sex events... e.g. the oldest world records in major athletics events are circa 40 years old (set by dubiously muscled walking steroid vials), and the highest number of Olympic golds won by an individual was 20-odd by Michael Phelps... I think that PT would only concede that there's an issue if we saw TW surpassing these kinds of marks...

Pete’s teeny tiny transsexual friend is probably a fraudulent accountant at risk of a prison sentence… he uses he same arguments for both debates.

Problem is, those teeny tiny perfectly passing transsexuals are pretty much mythical.

Or is maybe just of a not dissimilar generation to PT. Looking at world records in masters athletics, the fastest aged 50+ men would rarely be a medal contender in women's all-ages events. Though that's, of course, very far from the whole story.

The point of Tatchell's argument, and Robin White versus Maya Forstater last week on Shelagh Fogerty re the Costa poster, and underpinning the whole of trans liberation theology, is that the science doesn't matter. All that matters is the lived experience of individuals, how people wish to express themselves, and how society as a whole and no-one within it should be allowed to do anything other than celebrate self expression.

This is a post Christian, post moralist, post generally agreed standards, post Enlightenment, indeed a post liberal, world.

Where all that matters is individual self worth, their authentic self, and the obligation of society to reflect back positively, and never judge.

It's for society to work out how to do this, including men in women's sport. Not for the individual man to ponder on the significance of stepping into that female changing room, and onto the medals podium.

This is the post modern world homing into view.

She does deserve an upgrade. I think she's sacrificed a great deal. She's a proper shero.

Is Ian Wright a TERF?🤞

Listen from 2.21.30

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001p6dx

Saw this amusing yet sad cartoon earlier, really sums up the problem

Is now the right time to mention that Peter thinks that boys in their early teens can sometimes benefit from having sexual relationships with adult men?

His teeny, tiny friend is presumably not a man of Peter's age?

Muslim woman speaking out about tw in tag rugby.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12390227/Tag-Rugby-group-centre-trans-row-wholeheartedly-encouraging-male-born-players-join-female-sessions-boss-insisting-trans-women-women.html

Incidentally, Sharron Davies is using a crutch in the photo. I'm assuming an old picture and an old injury she's recovered from?

Tatchell’s story was of a 9 year old boy who, as an adult, didn’t think he had been harmed by a sexual “relationship” with an adult.

This is the position of a lot of gender ideologists. In their mind there is no advantage unless someone wins every single event. And even then, they would point to Phelps and say "well this does happen so what's the problem here".

They mostly are incapable of understanding relativity (a 50th percentile male becoming a 99.99th percentile in the women's category is an advantage even if he does not win every single time) or they do but are purposefully lying. But the vast majority of them are just sheep that fall into the former category, because they also don't think about the issue beyond blindly following dogma.

I heard that and got definite terfy vibes from it. Obviously he could have been talking about VAWG/pay gap/other sorts of abuse but then I think he could have named those things. It's the 'I can't go into this' and 'things we discussed off air' which made my terfdar ping.

Also he's a great supporter of women's football.

Disappointing he couldn't be more explicit but I wonder if that's partly because it's a prerecorded segment rather than live.

Sorry - the above was in reply to the Ian Wright link - should have hit 'quote'!

Katie Archibald wrote a letter to British Cycling before they reversed their decision allowing transgender women to compete in women's cycling.

It was very carefully worded, bearing in mind she was still competing to be in the team:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/61157886

Kim Russell, Head Women’s Lacrosse Coach at Oberlin College, is breaking her silence in an @IWF documentary after being “burned at the stake” for her support of single-sex sports & speaking out against allowing men in women’s sports.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1696554933368086770.html