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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Elite sports people speaking up!

1000 replies

Signalbox · 30/01/2023 10:29

There seems to be an increasing number of sports people speaking up about the problem of males completing in women's sports which is positive. Thought it might be useful to have a thread of those who are risking sticking their heads above the parapet. Obviously the likes of Sharon Davies, Mara Yamauchi and Martina Navratilova have been bravely doing this for sometime but now we appear to have a few current athletes as well who are prepared to risk the mob to ensure women have fair competition. Is it too much to hope for that there will be a snowball effect?

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Thread gallery
217
QuickWash · 13/06/2023 20:12

Some very unGuardian admissions in there.....

“Most [non-scientific] articles on this subject only discuss the potential advantages,” he says, adding that there are “several factors that also inhibit female performance, like lower O2-carrying capacity … Most experts in this area agree that, in any given race, the 10 fastest males will always outperform the 10 fastest females.”
Results further corroborate Tiller’s calls for balanced analysis of the data. For example, men have gone on to win every subsequent edition of the races Goldstein, Dauwalter, and Wilcox won in 2021, 2017 and 2016, respectively. Despite the nuances involved, what can be said with certainty is that women are able to compete with men over ultra-long distances in a way that has proven impossible so far at sprint distances, or even in standard marathons.

QuickWash · 13/06/2023 20:15

If Dixon had competed in the men’s category, he would have placed 31st.

But instead he was happy to come first in the women's category, taking the prize and the title. What an arse.

Results | Dirty Reiver at Kielder Forest

Full results from Dirty Reiver at Kielder Forest. Click into any rider to see their event history and any tagged photos they have.

https://www.rootsandrain.com/event11795/2023-apr-22-dirty-reiver-dirty-reiver-kielder-forest/results/filters/overall,f/

MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/06/2023 20:50

Off to pre order her new book. She's an absolute legend.

FigRollsAlly · 15/06/2023 21:36

In that article she says she was due to speak about her career at a rail industry event this Feb but the day before received “a very curt email” saying her services were no longer required because she was a transphobe. Huw Merriman, Transport Minister, was also due to speak and rang to ask them to reinstate her. When they refused, he withdrew. Why is it that so many more Tories are willing to stand up for women than the left are? The debate in Westminster Hall on Monday showed this very clearly. I suspect that part of the reason is that anyone who becomes a Tory MP knows they will be unpopular and seen as hard hearted among a significant section of society so they are often (not always) better at ignoring criticism for not “being kind”.

Signalbox · 15/06/2023 21:45

Audible have it for pre order too for those who prefer to listen.

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Truthlikeness · 15/06/2023 23:40

Sharon Davies is a complete hero

Truthlikeness · 15/06/2023 23:40

I wrote shero. Spellcheck 'corrected' it.

Signalbox · 16/06/2023 07:42

Article in The Age about Australia’s new trans guidelines for sports. I just can’t wrap my head around these female athletes who call for male inclusion in female categories.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/they-re-awesome-hannah-mouncey-celebrates-australia-s-new-sports-trans-guidelines-20230616-p5dh2m.html

“Olympic swimmers McKeown and Groves have also come out in public support of transgender inclusion at the elite level.

“I’m all for allowing trans athletes to compete in sport and giving them equal opportunity to pursue their dreams, have fun and compete to the best of their ability,” McKeown said. “After all, isn’t that what sports are all about?”

“Groves added: “Australia prides itself on being a country that gives people a fair go, we should never deny people opportunities because of their gender ... Trans people deserve to play sport like anyone else.”

‘They’re awesome’: Hannah Mouncey celebrates Australia’s new sports trans guidelines

Transgender athlete Hannah Mouncey says Australia’s new guidelines for elite trans athletes as the best and most detailed that she’s seen, as two Olympic swimmers supported trans inclusion.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/they-re-awesome-hannah-mouncey-celebrates-australia-s-new-sports-trans-guidelines-20230616-p5dh2m.html

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OttersMayHaveShiftedInTransit · 16/06/2023 07:45

FigRollsAlly · 15/06/2023 21:36

In that article she says she was due to speak about her career at a rail industry event this Feb but the day before received “a very curt email” saying her services were no longer required because she was a transphobe. Huw Merriman, Transport Minister, was also due to speak and rang to ask them to reinstate her. When they refused, he withdrew. Why is it that so many more Tories are willing to stand up for women than the left are? The debate in Westminster Hall on Monday showed this very clearly. I suspect that part of the reason is that anyone who becomes a Tory MP knows they will be unpopular and seen as hard hearted among a significant section of society so they are often (not always) better at ignoring criticism for not “being kind”.

Huw is my MP - good to know he was prepared to take a stand on this.

Howpo · 16/06/2023 07:53

Speaking out is all well and good but we also need action, such as this week and Cycling Time Trials banning ALL TW from all levels of the sport, not just elite level.

WarningToTheCurious · 16/06/2023 09:19

Signalbox · 16/06/2023 07:42

Article in The Age about Australia’s new trans guidelines for sports. I just can’t wrap my head around these female athletes who call for male inclusion in female categories.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/they-re-awesome-hannah-mouncey-celebrates-australia-s-new-sports-trans-guidelines-20230616-p5dh2m.html

“Olympic swimmers McKeown and Groves have also come out in public support of transgender inclusion at the elite level.

“I’m all for allowing trans athletes to compete in sport and giving them equal opportunity to pursue their dreams, have fun and compete to the best of their ability,” McKeown said. “After all, isn’t that what sports are all about?”

“Groves added: “Australia prides itself on being a country that gives people a fair go, we should never deny people opportunities because of their gender ... Trans people deserve to play sport like anyone else.”

Interesting that the article states:

In the guidelines, the AIS states that an outright ban of transgender athletes from a sport - similar to policies introduced by World Aquatics (formerly FINA) or World Athletics - could be in breach of Australia’s anti-discrimination laws. Instead, the framework emphasises the need for case-by-case assessments of trans athletes.

That appears to be nonsense because:

(a) Transgender athletes are not subject to “an outright ban”, they can compete in the appropriate category based on their biological sex or TM on T can compete in the open category).

(b) The Australian 1984 Sex Discrimination Act (Part II, Div. 4: 42 – Sport): ‘(1) Nothing in Division 1 or 2 renders it unlawful to discriminate on the ground of sex, gender identity or intersex status by excluding persons from participation in any competitive sporting activity in which the strength, stamina or physique of competitors is relevant.’

Point (b) is taken from this article, which shows that inclusion does not trump fairness and safety.

https://idrottsforum.org/feature-imbrisevic220623/

Equality Australia is an LGBTQI organisation and not a Government body.

The AIS guidelines are here:

https://www.ais.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/1106522/Transgender-and-Gender-Diverse-Inclusion-Guidelines-for-HP-Sport.pdf

Also worth noting that these guidelines do not override International Federation policies.

Confusion about Inclusion: Transwomen Athletes in the Female Category

On June 19, the International Swimming Federation (FINA) approved a significant change to its policy on the inclusion of transwomen, effectively banning any transwoman swimmer from competing in female competition if they have gone through any part of t...

https://idrottsforum.org/feature-imbrisevic220623/

IcakethereforeIam · 16/06/2023 10:40
Run Converse GIF

Nice article on the belated recognition of women's sport (there's a documentary!). Seems to be missing something though 🤔

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/jun/16/womens-sport-is-entering-uncharted-waters-can-it-remain-true-to-its-roots

Perhaps it's mentioned in the film?

BettyFilous · 21/06/2023 16:50

Previous post is a link from Twitter. The ‘publication’ seems especially dumb.

DaughterOfPsychiatrist · 23/07/2023 11:07

Yes!

Tessa Sanderson v Fatima Whitbread (rivals on the same GB team) is the most memorable/inspiring sporting story of my childhood.

Watching the televised Olympic & Commonwealth Games back then I had no clue how difficult things were for female athletes compared to their male counterparts (sometimes I miss my innocent naïveté 😬) although I was acutely aware of the sexist & racist insults levelled at Tessa & Fatima.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/13/tessa-sanderson-how-the-first-black-british-woman-to-win-an-olympic-title-fought-her-way-to-the-top

so pleased to see Tessa tagging in Sharron D - I’m in my 40s and these women were inspirational to me. Today’s girls need similar inspiration, women athletes being pushed off podiums by males isn’t inspiring!

Tessa Sanderson: how the first Black British woman to win an Olympic title fought her way to the top | Athletics | The Guardian

In 1984, she became the only Briton ever to win gold in an Olympic throwing event – then went back to work as a typist. She describes her rivalry with Fatima Whitbread, struggles to find funding and life after athletics

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/13/tessa-sanderson-how-the-first-black-british-woman-to-win-an-olympic-title-fought-her-way-to-the-top

Signalbox · 23/07/2023 11:49

Fabulous!

Elite sports people speaking up!
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Signalbox · 03/08/2023 14:22

https://twitter.com/Daley_thompson/status/1687088897342255104

Elite sports people speaking up!
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Signalbox · 04/08/2023 06:36

Former Olympic rower Alex Storey v Peter Tatchell on GB News.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1687066967260471298

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1687066967260471298

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SinnerBoy · 04/08/2023 07:00

It's not a subjective point of view, it's an objective point of fact.

Well, someone has finally said it out loud.

Signalbox · 04/08/2023 08:55

SinnerBoy · 04/08/2023 07:00

It's not a subjective point of view, it's an objective point of fact.

Well, someone has finally said it out loud.

He wasn’t pulling any punches was he? 😂

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SinnerBoy · 04/08/2023 08:58

No!

As for Tatchel and his dishonest claim that his transw friend was the smallest, weakest member of a ladies' football team - that sort of falsehood needs to be squashed by qualified people every time.

OttersMayHaveShiftedInTransit · 04/08/2023 10:11

Wow brilliant - I wonder why a 6'8" bloke is able to say what we all know? It almost like men and women get treated differently.

As for Tatchell and his 'some athletes have advantage' line that might hold up if say the line up for Olympic swimming finals were decided by random ballot and Bob the middle-aged accountant from Redditch found himself lining up poolside next to Michael Phelps but the reality is the most supremely adapted who will become the elite.

Even if a tiny weak TW has no physical advantage (which I would question as I don't think men can ever truly appreciate the 100's of small differences between male and female bodies so even a short, slight man can have greater strength and speed than a tall, muscular woman) they would still have lots of advantages arising from their male background e.g.- they will have had football lessons in PE at school where women in the team almost certainly didn't. He won't have to deal with menstruation or make choices bases on the impact of pregnancy.

Men are not and can never be women.

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