Scottish Trans rapist - discussion on R4 today. Staggering.

[Pocketfullofdogtreats]

I know there's another thread on this subject but I just wanted to make you aware of this discussion on the World At One this lunchtime, so you can listen to the later version at 6pm if you missed it.

The presenter (Sarah Montague) asked an ex-prison governor to fill in a bit of info. Why were the Scottish Govt involved in this case? The ex-PG said the prisoner had been held 'segregated' in a women's prison for the allowed length of time while they decided where to place 'her', but now presumably the governor wanted to extend that, and as the prisoner has human rights this would need govt. permission. She (the ex-PG) said that in her opinion, regardless of 'her' crime, if the prisoner was assessed as presenting no current threat to women, then she should be held in a women's prison.

Yep. That's right. I nearly fell off my bloody chair. If this person who has recently been found guilty of raping two women is not currently a threat to women, they should be able to mix freely with women prisoners.

The ex-PG then, confusingly, said that if the prisoner had been held in a men's prison in the first place, 'all this' would've been avoided. She also commented that she'd worked with many Trans prisoners, all of them M to F, and none of them had had surgery, and there had been some 'incidents' including flashing, and worse. Also, that although Sturgeon confirmed that the prisoner would not be held in Colston Vale, this didn't rule our her being sent to another women's prison.

I don't normally post on these boards. Sorry if anyone thinks I shouldn't have made a new thread. But I am so bloody angry at the hypocrisy here that I had to.

And she did point out that she has not yet come across any male prisoner who has claimed that they should be in a female prison who had surgery

So a person who identifies as a woman but has their penis intact can be locked up for 23 hours a day with a woman who has a vagina. What about that woman's human rights?

The BBC really boils my piss, Critical. He got away with that!!

No he didn't. We see you, Evan. And we're not the only ones.
And it's destroyed my previous trust in him as a serious and impartial journalist. If he's dodging this issue because of his own personal views what else is he averting his eyes from?

They did just run it as the lead story on bbc1 6pm news.

Including a short interview with Rhona

That's great. And yes, it's been a headline on the BBC news all day. Good for them. My issue is that individual journalists should not swerve or be permitted to swerve a major story because they have a stance on the issues which means they might find it awkward to deal with. No doubt TWAW Evan would say plenty of other coverage and his short shorts item was a necessary note of lightness in an otherwise pretty grim news day. Yeah, right.

Exactly. He does cover the trans issue, but only ever to underline how vulnerable and oppressed TW are (l don't think he knows TM exist!) with confetti and glitter and clown fish and skipping through beds of flowers and talking to clouds.

Sorry, angry.

This is the most important news/interview/discussion program on the BBC after the Today program. And tumbleweeds.

Evan Davis isn't covering this news item because it does not conform to his views. Almost like he is trying to...stifle conversation? That is what a biased journalist looks like, BBC.

Sure it was on the six o'clock news. But Evan let us down here.

The problem with a separate trans prison is that you would have one prison trying to serve the needs of a whole group of different prisoners with different needs:

Everyone from Cat A to Cat D and remand
Sex offenders and non sex offenders
Lifers and those needing skills and education for release

And all in one place so most of them would be miles from family.

There are loads of reasons that prisoners are vulnerable - who they are, being members of gangs, what their offences are, mental health, how much money they do or don't have, the list goes on and on. Trans isn't unique in making someone vulnerable.

I did notice that, although she may have said "she" once or twice Rhona was very careful to call Bryson " this person" rather than call her a woman. It was a tell you might have missed if you weren't in the know but it was a good clue as to what her opinion on the matter was whilst she laid out good honest factual information that was very illuminating.

I'm pretty sure l heard her say "he" at the end of the interview though!

I would like little Nikki to be asked one question on an interview.

“Ms Sturgeon, would you want to share your accommodation with a convicted rapist?”

Evan trivialised this whole issue, and therefore trivialised women’s safety, by using the “trans debate” as material for his ridiculous AI experiment on the PM programme recently where he asked “Einstein” and others what they thought. Pathetic, he is pathetic.

Good grief. A Trans prison. They won’t like that because it won’t truly validate them.

And like a PP says, actually there are lots of types of prisoners with lots of different needs. How about MTF trans prisoners are simply accommodated in the male estate and looked after/segregated for their own safety there?

Latest BBC article on Bryson talks of how he enrolled on a beauty course while awaiting trial. He was described as "overpowering" and "disruptive".

Wouldn't Yaniv love to enroll on a beauty course!

Obviously courses and colleges vary but as far as I know most beauticians seem to be young and female. I believe at some colleges it is possible for members of the public or other students to book treatments like facials or a massage at a cut price for the learners to train on.

So the opportunities for unwitting women to be exposed (literally) to this man - or any other trans women who sign up to such a course are plentiful.
I assume some students are male but that there would be provisions around that, and obviously in those cases their sex would be known and not an issue.

It is really quite sad to read the comments from those young women.

I am really quite flummoxed by posters who baldface post things like pie did the other day about how accepting women are of males in their spaces.

Because here are young women who felt uncomfortable undressing in front of this person. A transitioned male. Who the college put in direct contact with women undressing for a tanning class. Do they allow any males in these classes? Or do males have their own classes?

It shows this constant agenda to tell us what 'young women' are accepting of, as being a falsehood.

It is absolute bollocks!!

Of course a beauty courses can be freely available to men to join too BUT let's be honest, they are in the minority and are very often gay men who are in no means there to letch on (predominantly) young women getting semi naked as they learn how to do a professional spray tans. He expected to be treated as one of the girls. By Sturgeons logic he should be. Now come on! Who in their right mind would be ok with this?! Girls at school now are being being brainwashed to accept this kind of BS.

Sure men can do the courses. But specifically the tanning courses? Are they mixed sex? Are alternatives offered to women who don't want these courses to be mixed sex?

Belatedly adding that I thought Rhona Hotchkiss was excellent on the World at One. I think the OP's initial interpretation stemmed from Rhona differentiating between her experience as a prison governor trying to implement policies that she did not make and her own professional and personal opinions.

Gasp0de also mentioned the Nick Robinson interview with Yvette Cooper. It was the first time I'd heard a BBC journalist on a news programme referring to 'intact male genitalia'. I think this is really important as we know many people assume transgender means a person has had surgery.

As for Evan Davies, he has always been biased. Anyone who has ever listened to The Bottom Line, his radio show about business, will have heard that he is textbook socially liberal economically 'hard'. And his fawning over the Dragon's Den presenters is something else too.

I don't think women on a beauty course should be expected to to be ok with practicing treatments with any male that involve undressing if they aren't comfortable with it but I think what this case clearly demonstrates is that the TWAW mantra means these situations are just pushed on women anyway with no thought for how they feel about it.

Clearly with Bryson, he was problematic enough to give them confidence to speak out and he was eventually removed from the course. But one can easily imagine a situation where a TW would keep a lower profile, not rock the boat and the women would be quiet and put up with it as too afraid to be accused of transphobia, despite being deeply uncomfortable with the situation.

I agree chaos

I think it just shows how confusing this is to the general public. And how we got to this situation in the sense that we all want to be kind and fair blah blah but actually there are some really nasty people out there who we need protecting from.