Miriam Cates is on Politics Live today, 25 January.

[MoirasSaggyBundles]

Hoping Miriam gets a chance to address the odious attack on her by Lloyd Russell Moyles, and the conviction yesterday of the double rapist who claims he's a woman.

Lord David Blunkett (Labour)
Miriam Cates MP (Cons)
David Linden SMP (SNP)
Anne Widdecombe (former Cons, former Leave Party)

Thanks for the heads up.
From what I’ve heard from David Blunkett previously, he’s a TWAW spouter, I suspect Anne is not, so it’s a pretty balanced panel.

AW most definitely is not from when I've seen her interviewed on the topic before!

Typical. Lefty men who consider themselves "feminists" v actual women who will be branded as phobes and inherently wrong and hateful because of their political orientation.

Here goes. Presented referring to the heated debate last week on section 35. Showing clips of MC and Moyles.

Presenter now referring to the apology.

MC saying that her colleagues tried to intervene and defend her during Moyles' rant. Has had enormous support in the party and wider public. She said Moyles crossed the hall and sat near to her on the Tory benches. Doesn't know intent of that.

The wider point is that this illustrates the point she was trying to make. That women are frightened to raise safeguarding concerns and genuine cases where they feel frightened because of this, frankly, violent response that is provokes in people who oppose feminists speaking up about women's and children's rights.

WE've been talking about having grown up debates. That's not a grown up debate. Grown ups debate is when you engage on the facts, issues and evidence, and I'm afraid he (LRM) completely failed to do that.

I notice the SNP line is to say it's within their devolved competence.

Ooh David Blunkett! S35 use was right. LRM should apologise to Miriam. Male rapists should not be in women's prisons. Labour is a bit all over the place!!

Blunkett would like to see Starmer say that sex and gender are different things and that women's equality "trumps it all"

Ooh. Blunkett 'women's equality trumps it all'

I'm pleasantly surprised.

Well!! Very pleasantly surprised by David blunkett

Presenter asking MC what happened after? LRM crossing the floor: he said that was because Kirsty Blackman of the SNP was speaking and it's convention that you don't cross a speaker on the floor of the house, so he stood briefly at the bar of the chamber and then sat on the side bar seats, which are not party aligned (while waiting for the final speaker, the vote and looking at his phone). HE said it wasn't an uncommon thing to do. But what happened then while he was sitting there?

MC: One of my colleagues came and sat next to me to make sure I felt safe.

For those of us watching online, do you know how many minutes in that exchange is where Miriam talks about LRM's rant?

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbctwo?rewindTo=current

Something like 11:55?

MC doesn't want to focus on one speaker. The wider debate needs to listen to the evidence and facts presented by women.

LRM has apologised for his tone but stands by his words.

Presenter: doesn't LRM have a legitimate POV? You talk about debate that needs to be civilised and reasonable.

MC: I would question the legitimacy of hearing a woman speak about feeling frightened, and raising clear evidenced points about how, if you allow men in women's spaces, people will get around those safeguards; and (for him) to follow that up with saying this is transphobic bigotry. This is happening to women every day in their jobs. I'm written to by older women afraid to go to hospital because they won't get a single sex ward. We've got to be honest in this debate.

Thank you David Blunkett. And Miriam Cates for calmly, clearly gett8ng the safeguarding big picture across so well as always.

Clip of Blunkett. Enjoy it before he's sent off to Re-Education to fix his Wrong Think!!

twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1618218718743658496?s=12

Blunkett raised the case of Adam graham called him 'that guy'. Off to the gulag with him.

Blunkett actually sounded furious about the whole situation

If he ever was that, he doesn't appear to be engaging in such dissimulation or falsehood now.

I was surprised by his straight talking on the show. I imagine his honesty has gained him some respect.

Absolutely stunned at a Labour man being so unequivocally supportive of women's rights. More of that please

MC: We can't change sex, that is a biological fact, and the social consensus/covenant that keeps women safe only works if everybody buys into it.

Presneter: David Linden, you see it differently.

David Linden SNP: Well what I see is democracy. All 5 parties in the Scottish Parliament voted in favour of the legislation. Sec State for Scotland has used s35 to block this for this first time ever- anti democratic and full frontal assault on Scottish democracy.

Presenter: But what about the tone of the debate? This is it so difficult to have a civilised debate without the heat and personalisation?

DL: I think the behaviour in the HOC last week was out of order. Need to keep in mind that people have very strong views and I absolutely respect that. There are also people in the trans community who are incredibly vulnerable as well. Need to take the temperature out of this. But the reality is that the Scottish Parl has has this debate, consultation etc. Scotland has announced it will try to block the S35.

always liked David Blunkett. and well done to him for mentioning the Scottish rapist in a women's gaol

Bit cross that this section was at the end and somewhat cut off before it was fully discussed. BBC normally try and avoid the issue but this appears to be the current tactic. Discuss it but at the end of a programme and run out of time

Asking David Blanket whether s35 should be use?

DB: About put s35 in the Act, and there's not point putting it in if you never expect to use it.

Presenter: Was this the right point?

DB: I think things is a complex issue and it was right. I am sick and tired of identity politics, we need respect and genuine equality. And we need people like LRM to apologise to people like MC, because MC was expressing a perfectly reasonable point of view. There is a man called Adam Graham who is a 2 time rapist, decided to trans and could end up in a women;'s prison in Scotland.

Thanks for sharing, pleasantly surprised by David Blunkett on this!

Presenter to DB: Are Labour in the right place?

DB: They are a bit all over the place on it. WE just have to be clear. Respect, equality, ensure people are treated properly, that we don't alienate, that we care about how people are feeling and their development and their emotions they are going through; not pandering to situations which put aside 50 years of equality campaigning for women.

Presenter: What would you like to hear from Kier Starmer?

DB: Sex and gender are entirely separate things. you can have someone who feels like they are a different gender and you can help and support them. But in the end, women's equality trumps it all.

Presenter to Ann Widdecombe:

AW: Absolutely right to use [s35]. Agree with DB.

Back to David Linden who is shaking his head: The issue is does the Labour Party still believe in devolution? The SLP presented amendments to ensure the legislation is compatible with the EqA. Is the London LP now going to decide to support this or side with the Westminster Government of this full frontal assault on Scottish democracy. Sounds like it listening to DB.