Womens rights - going topless in public

[Newusernameaug]

I’m sorry if I don’t articulate this particularly well, but I’m feeling increasingly angry that as women we’re forced to wear something covering our nipples when men don’t as I feel it’s constantly reaffirming sexism.

I wild swim and sauna a lot. When I’m cold water wild swimming I genuinely can’t undo a bikini top as my hands are obviously so cold, so have to swim in pull on / off tops. I go naked when somewhere isolated, but often swim in more public places.
In the sauna this week I wore a bikini with metal rings on the back (where the straps join) and it was burning my back.

I feel that if women were just allowed to be topless as and when they wanted to, like men can, (but obviously not inappropriately) it would dispel this mystery and allure around breasts and would help men to see us as all shapes and sizes.

However I’m not sure if I’m being extreme? I’m really angry about our rights being eroded at present and somehow can see this is linked but can’t articulate it.

I guess I’m just wondering if others feel this way too? I’m not saying I want to walk round topless, but as an example, having travelled a fair bit I’m fully aware other in other countries women can enter saunas topless or naked and no one bat an eyelid.
why are we so repressed in the UK?

Thanks for the responses it’s really interesting to hear different opinions.

I do get frustrated and think it’s a small thing that adds up to a larger thing by not being able to be topless, especially in the sauna etc.

And because our breasts have been so sexualised, going topless doesn’t feel like the ‘right thing’ to do when wild swimming, but maybe that’s my own conditioning and I just need to do what I want.

Thanks for the off topic advice about cold water dipping, which those posters clearly have no idea about but just want to try and make a point 🙄

I've always gone topless on holiday, Spain and France where it's acceptable.
I'm small of chest so it's more comfortable than stupid straps and also wet material feels awful imo so I'm with you OP

Yes the person who thinks you'll get hypothermia 😆😆 better go tell wim hoff he's at risk!

I think it should be socially acceptable for women to be topless wherever men are accepted to be but I do think men should be topless a LOT less than they are. I think the standard should be for everyone to have their torso covered up, unless they're at the beach/sauna etc and then everyone should be able to have torso bare. I think it's men getting away with something it would be better they weren't doing rather than needing to 'allow' women to do it more.

It's not prudishness in my case but hygiene, I don't think it's hygienic to have an area of the body generally uncovered that sweats more, may have more hair (men) and will brush against things so easily (passing alongside people, reaching for things in a shop etc etc). I also think the same about people who are very excessively hairy on legs or arms and have them uncovered in shops etc, it collects sweat to be passed on. On the beach etc you're not doing so much. Head hair is not the same as if it's long it will be brushing against clothing most of the time rather than your body and you don't easily rub your head against things.

The only time I see men without a top on are either at the pool or young guys in high summer. I think I can live with that.

Yes I agree that going topless should be at appropriate places such as swimming / sauna.

im not wanting to walk round topless just when in bathers be treated the same as men.

I was thinking of how to articulate this correctly, I’m very curvy and by wearing a bikini I’m ‘dressing and displaying’ myself I feel, like because they’re hidden it’s more alluring than if they were just out on display because then there’s no fantasy and window dressing? I feel more uncomfortable in a bikini top than without it for this reason as once everyone’s naked then the mystery has gone.
I do wonder how much of this is also my personal experience, as I said I’m curvy and a size E and so have a large cleavage in bikini tops and can feel a bit wonder bra-y in them. I always go for non padded, push up, more sports style but of course if it looks flattering on, which I want it to look nice then I feel as above when entering a sauna, especially as a lot of the time I’m the only woman amongst men.

I meant non push up 😬

Sadly, this.

But I can attest to nudity in the sauna being 100% better than wearing swimwear.

Other than to accommodate breastfeeding, this is so far down the feminism priority list for me I can barely see it.

I agree with kids it shouldn't matter until it matters to them (although I have boys, and whilst the eldest is happy to have it all out, the youngest prefers full coverage (which TBH is better anyway since he's pale as the driven snow and would fry to a crisp in an instant without a rash vest).

I was raised in the 70s/80s when that was the case - plenty of pics of me in just bottoms at the beach - but still, for my comfort I prefer a bit of coverage and support (both sun and cold depending on location), and yes, TBH, as a repressed brit, I'd prefer to wear a towel in the sauna I'm afraid, and I'm happy to own that.

Out and about at the beach, to each their own, but it's not a cause that I think is key to my feminism. Like many people, outside of appropriate areas, I'd actually prefer men cover up too.

Where I live nudity is the norm.

Just do it

Re. The allure / fascination with breasts...

When I was 15/16 in the mid-90s and topless sunbathing was par for the course in the Med, I remember being anxious about our family holiday - that I wouldn't be able to not stare at boobs, that I would become visibly aroused (a horror show for a teenage boy) and so on.

When I actually got there, the fact so many people were topless in one place made it "normal" in about 20 minutes.

I think breasts being openly bared basically de-sexualisies them to the same level as something else that is sometimes covered, sometimes revealed like shoulders, legs, midriff.

I our less than tropical climate, I don't think you'd ever have enough women going topless often enough to make that happen though.

There's no need to wear swimwear with metal on it.

Most women do not want their boobs to be bare anyway.

Even in the most naked of places, places where it’s normal to swim/ sauna/ beach naked… there’s still a massive porn industry for boobs and there are still perverted men and sexism.I don’t know the answer but it’ll take a good few generations until we get to a point where men don’t ogle tits.

Will I get flamed for suggesting that female breasts are sexual for men? But male breasts don't do alot for women?

Because that seems the obvious point to make..

Why is there a denial of this? I think it's ridiculous to say women should all get their boobs out. Who does that benefit? Men!

Something off about this subject for me...

Does it really make men 'perverted' to get turned on by boobs?

Women seem to be being encouraged at every turn to be naked or as near to naked as possible. Why?

And to express themselves by wearing really revealing outfits and anyone who queries it is body shaming them?

Sex work? Empowering.

Is there a pattern here?

I don’t mean men are perverted for being turned on by boobs. I just mean you still find creepy pervs hanging around saunas etc in places where nudity is commonplace.
In some parts of Eastern Europe mixed naked saunas are common enough. Yet you’ll still get (v occasional) men who come in solely to stare, even to wank.
They haven’t been desensitised , even though they’ve been raised in such a culture since childhood. They’ve probably saunaed naked with grandma/ sister/ mother/ friends since childhood but it doesn’t make a difference.

I used to work in a national park. On a hot day there would be a procession of lobsters going up the mountain. Yuck, save it for the beach. Also see the odd one with no shirt riding on public transport. Urgh, put the beer belly away.

I agree. And I'm not ashamed to say I love sex. I really do. I don't mind bodies. I talk very openly about it but... I also know how men think and I know how women are preyed upon by men. This is a tale as old as time. It's usually very niave worn in their early twenties who advocate for this. Then they grow up and realize there's a difference between equality and pandering to men. It's not perverted for men to love boobs but it is perverted for them to creep on women who are either top young to consent to sex or grown women who don't want any part of that.

“Kinky” mum??? Obvs not!!!

And? Isn't feminism about allowing women to make their own individual choices?

Oh so you're the arbiter of who is and isn't kinky? A nine year old shouldn't be subjected to kink. Lol. That's not kink that's called being a child predator. 😂

Also I felt the need to state the irony of your comment, you are the perfect example of not knowing to draw the line with boundaries and consent are which is what kink is supposed to be all about. You shouldn't get into kink of you don't understand safe boundaries.

You're going to sexually assault someone if you are into kink or ever get into it.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

Just do it. If anyone complains just tell them you are non-binary or that you identify as a man.

As a man, I think male sex creep behaviour is pretty much a constant small minority that will never go away, change or cease to exist.

I caught a perv wanking under the table in a city centre pub one day whilst watching two young female staff dressed in jeans and baggy T shirts working. A man who is a creepy perv on the beach or at the sauna is still a creepy perv in the supermarket or on the bus.