Non-binary student left 'hurt' after disabled toilet row at Digbeth bar

[SerendipityJane]

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/non-binary-student-left-hurt-25914614

"In Victorian Britain, most public toilets were designed for men. Of course, this affected women’s ability to leave the home, as women who wished to travel had to plan their route to include areas where they could relieve themselves. Thus, women never travelled much further than where family and friends resided. This is often called the ‘urinary leash’, as women could only go so far as their bladders would allow them."

From The History of Women’s Public Toilets in Britain

Thank you for sharing. This information is very eye opening!

of all the things going on in the world, how can the “look at me crowd” make such a song and dance about going for a piss. madness.

A mum with two small children might need a larger toilet because she can't leave them outside alone while she goes to the toilet. Don't be so judgemental

Exactly! Charlie wants to highlight their shyness about using the loo by making it public and going to the media?

I have MS and only once used a disabled toilet when I lost control of my bladder whilst out. Generally I can get up stairs etc and so leave the disabled toilets for those that cannot use regular toilets.

I actually feel more irritation with non-binary people than trans folk at times.

At least with trans folk, there is a genuinely complicated situation - ie/women don't want trans women in their single sex space because they are biological men, but trans women are worried about their own safety and the threat from men if they use the male toilet. While I don't want TW in female toilets, I appreciate there needs to be a solution (ie/third space).

Non-binary is just a rejection of a social construct. Lots of women reject stereotyping or feel uncomfortable with being visibly feminine. I don't see any reason at all why someone who is non-binary can't use the toilets that align to their biological sex.

I've got quite a number of TW on my Twitter and they're actually bloody marvellous. They believe in single sex spaces and accept they don't belong, and they genuinely raise up women's voices. It's just the vocal TRAs which fuck things up by trying to demand women's rights are trampled on.

But NB individuals....they're frequently younger adults who are clearly still in that stage of trying to figure out their identity. Not always, but often. And they wear it like a badge, inserting the fact into conversations wherever possible. It's just wearisome and I don't think it comes from the same place as genuine gender dysmorphia. I think it's trendy and seen as cool to be "different". Except it's not different because every other bastard is claiming to be NB now. It's a rejection of societal standards and stereotyping - just like punk was, back in the day.

Absolutely no reason for NB not to use sexed toilets. There are plenty of women who look quite butch - and until men started bragging about accessing our spaces, it was never an issue.

And there we have it - the mum who thinks she’s more important than the person with cancer. I will be absolutely as judgemental as I like with selfish people.

It was the children who needed to go, not the mother. It took ages because she let them go one after the other in the disabled toilet. She told me this to explain the delay because she could see how desperate poor mum was to get in there, while her kids meandered out and one went back in to have a little play pressing the button to close and open the door. Meanwhile the ladies toilet was completely empty. I know because I went in there to see if I could manage to get the wheelchair inside (I couldn’t). She could have easily used it.

I have IBS and if I need the loo urgently, if the gents is busy I have no issue using the ladies or the disabled loos. its better than the other option!!!

as for non binary, what you are born as dictates the loo you use.

I'm thinking of identifying as a dog when my IBS is playing up, not sure the police will agree tho😂

i thought it was us uppity women who were causing a fuss because TW just want to pee in women’s toilets. Not flash, wank, assault women and girls or demand to be in any other women’s spaces?
FFS, we can’t even have our own protest now without the gender woo crowd appropriating it 🙄

disabled people have fought long & hard for their facilities and do not have a choice. Yes, they are unisex because their disability takes priority over sex/gender. These areas need to be respected by everyone and not just taken over by the gender swappers.

toilets are not a place to be squeamish about your gender. bearing in mind that M & F & disabled toilets are actually designed and engineered around the actions required to relieve oneself. These actions are determined by the genitalia you possess & disabilities you have.

Charlie doesn’t feel comfortable using the women’s loos because she doesn’t look like a woman??
Nonsense, I’m willing to bet that, in the absence of any surgery/medical interventions, Charlie does, indeed, look like a woman. Not ‘feeling’ like a woman is very different to not ‘being’ one.
I’m tall, broad shouldered and have short hair. The other day I walked the dog wearing no makeup, jeans, wellies and my teenage son’s waterproof coat. Weirdly enough, I still felt comfortable using the women’s loos.
The discomfort is all in Charlie’s mind. And while I do feel a bit sorry for her, she’s just going to have to get over her discomfort and leave the disabled toilets for the disabled people who actually need them.

Brought back during Covid, when men could pop behind a bush to relieve themselves when all public loos were shut. Women and the disabled had no such luxury .

I would think it unlikely that the staff would grill anyone on their degree of disabledness and thus entitlement to the key. Not impossible, sadly, but unlikely.

I suspect it's rather more likely Charlie made the reason clear when asking. Because, as @DdraigGoch 's friend identified, it's all about the drama.

Non-binary is just a rejection of a social construct. Lots of women reject stereotyping or feel uncomfortable with being visibly feminine. I don't see any reason at all why someone who is non-binary can't use the toilets that align to their biological sex.

How is it any different from me rejecting my nationality as British, on the grounds that I don't dress like a beefeater, don't love queuing, don't drink tea, hate talking about the weather, use a mobile to make calls instead of searching for a red phone box, not a royalist, am not monoglot English, don't own a bulldog, don't go down the street doing the Lambeth Walk, urging everybody I meet to have a banana?

The fact that I was born in Britain to British parents and have lived here almost all of my life clearly counts for nothing when aligned with a whole raft of stereotypes.

I must be stateless - I shall have to remember to ask (kicking up a fuss and going to the media, if necessary) which toilets have been provided specially for special people like me the next time I need a wee in a public place.

Obviously a "special" person, far too special to use the normal toilets like everyone else.
Nobody fucking cares if if you identify as a damn bicycle. Just go and do the loo, I guarantee you if you are female and you go into the female toilets, not one person in there will give a flying feck about you.
Your importance is all in your own mind Charlie.

There are a lot of very special people about now it seems.

toocold54

However, some disabilities are hidden and I hope that it wasn’t case that the staff thought she didn’t look disable enough.

I'm willing to bet the farm that she told them she's not disabled, but because of special sparkly woo, they must let her use the disabled loos. Sorry, there's nothing wrong with her and she can use the ordinary toilets.

kerry-thompson.com/2020/07/12/using-a-disabled-toilet-when-you-dont-need-to/

"The simple truth is – it doesn’t matter if you ‘think’ it’s okay or acceptable to use a disabled facility whether it’s a disabled toilet or changing places when you don’t need to, it’s hugely damaging to the disability community as it’s not just wheelchair users that use them which is a huge misconception."

"There may be no law against using an accessible toilet, plus nothing stating that only people with disabilities get first dibs sitting in the accessible thrown. However, the simple fact is applying a little common sense and that disabled toilets have been renamed as accessible toilets just re-enforce the argument that those with disabilities – visible or invisible – really should be the only people using them!"

"So next time you head towards an accessible bathroom, stop and think how you would feel if someone compromised your independence simply for their own convenience. Or worse, their own laziness."

Charlie. Get. A . Grip

If you use the ladies and anyone (unlikely) challenges you, just say your sex is female.

Sorted. Leave the disabled loos for those who need them.

God, this crap pisses me off so much! Toilets aren’t “gendered” - they’re divided by sex. A ‘non-binary’ person still has a sex so they use the one for their sex.

We don’t have “gendered” Ladies Loos because if we did, I wouldn’t have been allowed in today as I was wearing jeans and a hoodie from the boys section. My friend wouldn’t have been allowed in either as she’s a scientist, and we all know that’s a man’s job 🙄

And non-binary is stupid - regressive and stupid. Nobody conforms to all the stereotypes connected to their sex. You’re not special, Charlie 🙄 I always think ‘non-binary’ is shorthand for ‘not having a personality, being very insecure, and/or attention-seeking’.

They should just use the toilet of their natal sex. But that’s too simple.

All this fuss about toilets! You don't know how lucky you are. I identity as a cat and there are literally no accessible litter trays anywhere!

Why do you need a litter tray? Do you identify as a higher class of cat or something? Plenty of cats just shit and piss outside. Why can't you do that?
One of my cats used to piss up the exhaust pipes of cars in the street so that's another option for you.
Are you a non-binary cat? If you really don't want to piss or shit outside just wander into the toilets according to your sex at birth, find a nice corner and squat there. No need for litter trays.
Bloody hell, next thing we know you'll be in the Daily Mail with your sad cat's bum face because there were no litter trays available for you in public places.

Just shit in the nearest flowerbed like they all do.

Well that would be wonderful for my wheelchair bound mother - queuing up for the disabled bog, getting more and more desperate, and possibly having an accident, only to see some bloke in heels or a mopey transman skulking out. Totally unacceptable.