Help me work out how to alert my friends to what's happening. Also is my panic irrational?

[FriendofJoanne]

I've posted the Sex Matters petition and all my family and some of my closest friends have signed, but others have said nothing. When we get together we are usually in a group catching up on our lives in general, and I try to talk but haven't managed to so far.

I've shared the petition on our Whatsapp group but only had one contact me separately. I've written a letter but not shared it as there's so much to say. I want to share my worries succinctly - about women's rights being eroded, children being taught that gender is more important than sex, children and vulnerable adults being medicated and given surgery instead of therapy to help them with trauma.

This is affecting my mental health now, I feel sick, depressed and anxious about the world we live in because of this. I care about global warming and the financial inequality of the world too, but this issue has taken over my life. For you others in this who post regularly how do you manage your anxiety? Do you feel anxious? How do you keep going?

I try to put time boundaries around how long I spend reading, but I do tend to listen to podcasts while doing other things.

My husband suggested I step away for a bit, I do need to, but I feel strongly that once I've shared my concerns it will relieve my anxiety and I'll be able to stop obsessing about it.

So please help me very succinctly explain why this issue is so important. Thank you :) Or just some headlines to catch peoples attention to read more. I think a lot of people still don't think its relevant to their lives.

I don't have to answer any of your questions @IcakethereforeIam - not a single one

Nope. You don't have to give a fuck about my experience, either. That's clear.

No, the tras never like to answer questions either, not a single one.

I'm glad your tw friends have a loyal ally.

Lol of course you won’t answer any questions or back anything up with evidence beyond “but my lovely trans friends”

they never can….

Whilst it would help if you did answer, because answers are always woolly, never evidenced or "my tw friends are lovely". It matters not because your refusal to answer says as much as if you did bring out the "my tw friends are lovely" and obligingly you did.

My DP is the sweetest fella on the planet,give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, I will stand and defend him always. Unless he entered a women only space, whether sport, hospital ward, spa, toilet. That I wont stand for. Not for me, I dont care, but for all the women who do care, who will be on a urinary leash, who will turn down medical care, who will quit sports or actually never take up sports now, who will be confined to a small area, literally.

But your non answer sends a message too. If you really thought it was ok, you would have the answers.

I don't care how woolly you think my responses are @CryInToYourCornflakesNicola - the fact is people out there hold different views to the ones on here, and they owe you and others on here nothing. Our vote is worth the same as yours, and you don't get to see our workings.

@mollynolly

How do you tell the difference between the good ones and the bad ones?

You must have a fool proof method?

@mollynolly I hope one day that you might feel a little bit of guilt at your position.

Because of people like you, there are women being raped by males in prisons. Because of people like you there are women that have no way to access refuges or rape crisis without males being present.
Because of people like you, women who need intimate carers can't request a female carer without the risk of a transwoman turning up, because you know, transwomen are women in every circumstance.
Because of people like you, a woman was raped in a hospital ward and everyone denied it happened because there were no men present. Except there was, and they were lying because it was a transwoman.

Would you feel the same if your daughter was put into any of those scenarios? Would she be an acceptable casualty or is it just women you don't know or care about?

I know you'll never answer and I quite expect you not to post again, but how can you not see the issues? You may say that those things are nothing to do with you, but they're the end point of what you're advocating for.

I'm sure your TW friends are absolutely lovely. How don't you get that by opening the door to them, you're opening it to literally any man that fancies it? Not just your friends, but dodgy Dave from down the street too. You do realise that this will mean that your TW friends will be no safer, as everywhere will basically be mixed sex?

OP, I agree with you. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. It makes me so angry that people are so blind to the issues this causes BUT don't hound your friends. Maybe post things on your social media occasionally, or talk with friends sometimes about high-profile news stories (because there's always a new one coming along any minute). Don't overwhelm them and expect that some will never agree with you. Also, be wary because TRAs will happily get you fired and ruin your life.

But...right side of history.

thats the difference - we always show our workings

people can read and make up their own minds

Yeah, we know mollynolly. Nobody is obliged to give a fuck about women.

It's been made painfully clear, many times.

Did I say I was ok with women being raped?

What you are enabling and supporting involves this as an inevitable consequence, so yes, you are going to need to face up to that you are ok with women being raped so long as your lovely friends get what they'd like.

It will not 'kill' any male to use third spaces and accept a female only provision for females who cannot access anything else. It will kill some females though.

It really does come down to do you see female lives and equality a worthwhile sacrifice to make male people happier. Which after all is a sex based, binary position. People are going to have to face and own this. You don't get to chicken out of the nasty bits of the realities.

Yes gravy there is a fool proof method.

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

Ignore anything that doesn't fit with the 'nice mates' narrative. Ignore all the needs of women and girls who need single sex provisions to remain single sex by dismissing their needs as being either hateful or exaggerated or just non-existent. Ignore the people telling you this because 'what do they know, they are just haters anyway'.

Well it is a method. I suspect it is a fool's method.

The uncomfortable realities.

Anyone who indulges their friends and refuses to acknowledge the bigger picture is absolutely okay with all the repercussions. Silence is complicity.

Change is a marathon, not a sprint. It doesn’t usually come from fervently insisting that others see your POV. It comes from steady, persistent patience.

So yes I’d be taking a step back if I were you. Give people time to form their own opinions, which might take years.

Have a little rant on Mumsnet to feel not so alone, and do something positive every now and then, like signing the petition, the steady drip drip. Protect your immediate family if needed.

Then take a step back on other times and enjoy our pretty privileged lives on the whole. We are not in Iran having to risk our lives to protest. It’s good to have some perspective on this.

Best comment I have seen on this issue on mumsnet thanks for restoring my faith about sensible people,

It's much more mundane than that. Trans women just want to be able to have a piss without being beaten up by men. So why aren’t they sorting out the issue of male violence? Or asking for third spaces?
Funnily enough, women also want to be able to use the bathroom without any threat from men…

FriendofJoanne

To be fair OP, I don't talk about this much to my friends. I mention it from time to time. Maybe just in regards of what I have done - such as I went to a rally, or something.

What I have noticed though, is that by mentioning it and leaving it then alone, I have had my friends start discussions with me or with other people when I am out of the room and I come back in and they are all there discussing it. Because it has become mainstream.

It might be a conversation about sports. It might be a conversation about Joanne Rowling. It might be a conversation about the young teens in our lives. It might be changing rooms.

I just add bits of information and update situations but I let them lead the conversations.

Women are noticing. Particularly those with children or who are working with children.

Women know that this is not just about toilets. Those that try to frame it as the toilet discussion are really not interested in seeing the wider impacts to society. Particularly the impacts to our children.

They just want to piss.

www.vice.com/en/article/jgpj5y/pissed-off-trannies-ehrc-protest

@mollynolly I'm not having a go at you I just want to understand your thinking about this.

Your tw friends are lovely and that will be why your friends with I guess. Karen white is not lovely and is a predator and has was in a women's prison who then went on to assault women.

Karen white is the type of person you are giving the same rights to.

It was already confirmed to be a predator and he still was placed in a women's prison.

How is that right? Or how does that make any sense?

Just suck up the incidents because your tw friends are nice?

I see those turning up to say how very sensible it is to let male people identify into all female spaces if they wish to, are all avoiding mentioning the issues this causes female people or any solutions whatsoever.

Not exactly sensible.

Or kind.

Or inclusive.

Or seeing female humans as equal to male ones.

I am a woman not sure about the other person but suspect she is a woman to. So yes it may upset some women but it’s doesn’t upset us . We don’t do any law by how it might upset a few people because if we did then suer as hell there would be a few things that wouldn’t now happen.

Yes, Stopclutchingpearls. Good points. <nods>

do we still have the camping stool & fire in a metal dustbin to sit by while we wait for an argument beyond

my lovely trans friends
They just want to peeeee
no one cares anyway
you can’t stop us
youre all old anyway