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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

“Gender” bloody everywhere

70 replies

DevilinaCardigan · 06/01/2023 15:56

I’ve just been looking at pet insurance quotes for my cats. Several different sites have asked for their gender instead of sex. I’ve asked them how they identify and what pronouns they use, but they’ve all fucked off for naps in warm spots around the house.
What am I supposed to answer?

**This is a lighthearted thread, but it does annoy me.

“Gender” bloody everywhere
OP posts:
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 08/01/2023 19:10

if people are so upset about it that they would harm themselves, those of us that don't really care could get over our minor annoyance with it and bite our tongues. Let the kids figure it out.

What I get so upset about is that while the kids are figuring it out they are doing serious physical damage to themselves cheered on by campaigners with political and personal agendas who have convinced themselves this is doing nothing but good. As a mother of one such kid you can take my word that I can't help caring about it and want to do something about it. For all that I didn't and still don't care what sex my child is, or what gender they think they are. I want my kid to be healthy and happy as an adult and this is making sure my kid and many others will grow up to be neither. That may be a "minor annoyance" to you but it's dead serious to me.

And if what those kids eventually figure out is that there was nothing very wrong with their original sex, and that what they have replaced it with doesn't work properly and is very bad for their health, and that they'd have been better off staying as they were... well yes, they figured it out. But too late.

Are you aware of the suicide rates for trans people?

More aware than you are. They are somewhat raised but not much when you take other mental illnesses etc into account. The extremely high rates that are often quoted are not realistic. And the actual rates don't get lower after transition, either, so encouraging kids down this path doesn't fix anything.

I think it's quite callous to poke fun at something that means so much to others.

Oh give over. A bit of humour never hurt anyone, not among the women dealing with it every day.

there are so many other woman specific problems, even in our society.

It matters to me as a woman and as a mother. This is the "Sex and Gender Discussion" MN board, what else did you expect everyone to be taking about and why did you choose to be here if you don't think it matters?

Zebracat · 08/01/2023 19:25

Perfectly happy, yes. It is ridiculous. Laughter seems to me a more adaptive response than uncritical acceptance of a ridiculous proposition. I dont care at all about gender, or how people identify. Quite comfortable with androgyny. I’m all for mixing things up. But people cannot change their sex, or their age, or their ethnicity. And pretending that they can is not kind. And has led to serious problems, mainly for women. How do you feel about elderly male sex offenders identifying as pre pubescent girls?

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 08/01/2023 19:46

My cat (RIP) was Assigned Ginger At Birth, but cats can't see colour so he never identified as one.

NitroNine · 08/01/2023 19:52

Sorry @Anactor - I have a (literally) broken brain & sometimes it lets me do very complicated things & sometimes it trips me up over very simple things.

Just the lack of directional signalling threw me completely - you were saying pet blessings don’t = Anglican dogs (plus joke re: burial) but I didn’t know whether you were saying “but pet gender is still more ridiculous than this” or “pet gender is an equally sound concept” or even “I absolutely believe in pet!gender”. That isn’t your fault at all, but it’s also why I then tried to explain again what I’d meant - I thought I must have been unclear in my post. (Because, as I said, literally broken brain.)

Have also seen important bit of post is missing. Specifically, the bit that explains I’d not been able to find the BelTel article about the specific incident I was referring to; & do not assume views of that sort go only one way. (Indeed, my own granny was her marriage was “defiling this Holy Day” - she’d moved to the mainland but got a thoughtful wee envelope full of sectarianism from home. Her mummy was given out to by their priest for feeding their neighbours during the Great Depression because said neighbours were Protestants & it was up to the local Protestants to feed them. He wasn’t foolish enough to suggest she stop a second time, mind 😬)

Yes, I’d quite like NI to address the Prod/Taig binary before it steeps itself in GenderWoo.

SharonEllis · 08/01/2023 19:53

NeuroWasabi · 08/01/2023 18:22

@Zebracat Are you happy about this thread? Are you happy that people think it's OK to poke fun like this? Would you be happy for your child to come across this thread? What would you say to them?

Whatever someone thinks or feels about the debate I think it's quite callous to poke fun at something that means so much to others. People (here) seem to believe the trans thing is some kind of mental illness, but even if so, I wouldn't make fun of the mentally ill. Maybe it's happening because this seems to be a space where only 1 view on the trans debate is represented, but still seems wrong to me.

Also I have to say I'm surprised that so many threads here are about the trans issue when there are so many other woman specific problems, even in our society.

Yes there are so many 'woman specific problems in our society' but we can't deal with them if we can't define a woman. Its precisely because there are problems specific to women that are being distorted by the focus on gender not sex that people are concerned.

Anactor · 08/01/2023 20:20

@NitroNine

Don’t worry about it - I have dyslexia, so it’s very likely that I missed off a directional tag.

Plus, I well remember watching the NI divisions play out on the mainland, so I’m well aware (as a proddy kid who went to a Catholic school) that views of this sort go in both directions.

DevilinaCardigan · 08/01/2023 20:24

NeuroWasabi · 08/01/2023 18:22

@Zebracat Are you happy about this thread? Are you happy that people think it's OK to poke fun like this? Would you be happy for your child to come across this thread? What would you say to them?

Whatever someone thinks or feels about the debate I think it's quite callous to poke fun at something that means so much to others. People (here) seem to believe the trans thing is some kind of mental illness, but even if so, I wouldn't make fun of the mentally ill. Maybe it's happening because this seems to be a space where only 1 view on the trans debate is represented, but still seems wrong to me.

Also I have to say I'm surprised that so many threads here are about the trans issue when there are so many other woman specific problems, even in our society.

Yes @NeuroWasabi i am happy about the thread - I fucking started it. I hoped you stretched before you made the reach that were poking fun at trans people. We’re poking fun at the people who use gender when they obviously mean sex. Especially in official forms.

Gender is made up stereotypes and how the hell am I meant to know what gender my cats identify with. I know their sexes as they have been neutered or spayed.

I’d have no issues with my child reading this thread though he would call me out on my swearing. If reading about cats not having a gender is enough to upset you or your child, I think you need to work on your resilience.

Personally, I think if someone is threatening to harm or kill themselves - whether it’s over gender or anything else - they need psychological help as soon as possible.

OP posts:
DevilinaCardigan · 08/01/2023 20:26

My cat reading the thread…

“Gender” bloody everywhere
OP posts:
grannyjacob · 08/01/2023 20:38

DevilinaCardigan Re-read your own post at 18.46 yesterday and don’t hang about whilst doing so 😉 yes, I can be a tad pedantic myself 😁

Irridescantshimmmer · 08/01/2023 20:46

Hahaha

I would wind the site developers/insurgance company up by telling then both cats identify as cannine at the weekends and bank holidays but feline during the week.

....and one of them lost their voice barking at a dog, but has since made a full recovery.

DevilinaCardigan · 08/01/2023 20:49

@grannyjacob D’oh! I should know better by now and proofread my posts more carefully 🫣

OP posts:
justcallmebozo · 08/01/2023 21:38

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NeuroWasabi · 09/01/2023 02:12

Oops, I didn't realise it was the sex and gender board. Somehow I thought it was just feminism. That makes more sense, then, sorry!

MotherofPearl · 09/01/2023 09:45

Sign on door to loos at railway station. I may bring in a sharpie next time I pass to make some corrections. Infuriating.

“Gender” bloody everywhere
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 09/01/2023 11:35

My cat has been known to self-identify as Able to Take on a Fox, a self- identification that was not congruent with reality. My cat continued to maintain this self-identification regardless of lived experience which to a neutral observer indicated the contrary.

NitroNine · 09/01/2023 16:12

@Anactor I do like that we didn’t instantly get all furious with each other, accuse each other of violence/Nazism/er anything else actually, &/or do anything but try to work out the confusion 👍
I grew up - & still live - in London, but I’ve more family in NI than over here; & it’s a very “Irish” bit of London. (Well, we’re being gentrified out, but that’s a whole other issue.) I’m sorry you’ve experienced sectarian idiocy.

@MumOfYoungTransAdult
Eep! I hope your cat’s ok! Just make sure if they get one of these they don’t try to upgrade it from ornamental to functional 🙀

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 09/01/2023 16:53

@NitroNine Aw he would have loved one of those, he loved boxes (even tank-identified boxes!)

SleekMamma · 09/01/2023 17:00

The horses in the international jump competition in Excel at Christmas had 'genders'. That was a new one on me!

I assume the organisers thought 'sex' too traumatic to have on screen? Bizarre

DevilinaCardigan · 09/01/2023 17:26

After a tiring day at work, I’d like to identify as cat gender and spend the rest of the week sleeping on the sofa and eating whenever I want without worrying about bills.

OP posts:
NitroNine · 13/01/2023 14:01

@MumOfYoungTransAdult
Am sorry your cat has gone over the 🌈bridge & hope he has limitless boxes (identifying as tanks or otherwise) in cat heaven.

@SleekMamma
Did they have pink/blue saddle pads & ear bonnets (or indeed something more special, like this dragon wings pad with matching ear bonnet) &/or bandages aligned by gender stereotype? Dyed manes/tails? If horses are having genders competitions should be facilitating their gender expression damnit. Cutie marks for all! (Ponies where I used to ride got cutie marks in their winter coats. It was adorbs.)

@DevilinaCardigan I would quite like to be able to be one of my own cats. Bit metaphysically challenging, but then I’d have all the snuggles (feline & human) I want; my choice of several beds (feline or human); & top-quality food three times a day. Plus healthcare without any waits. And treatment for my grumpy skin would be a delicious additive to my delicious food, which sounds much nicer than eczema treatment for humans 🤔

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