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Original poster

Please help! Gender not sex on a school 'protected characteristics' poster, just spoken to the Head!

994 replies

Vebrithien · 06/01/2023 09:55

Good morning,

I started this thread before Christmas

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4684558-today-i-found-my-bravery?page=1

The overview is that my DD's primary school is displaying posters by No Outsiders, which are supposed to show the 9 protected characteristics, but shows gender, not sex.

The (male) deputy head I mentioned it to, before Christmas, has not got back to me. The posters are still there.

I summoned up my courage this morning, and spoke to the Headteacher. She seemed surprised, as I said I'd already mentioned it to one deputy head, and that I'd picked up on it due to my school expecting Ofsted, and reissuing our equality training.

The Head said that it was surprising, as No Outsiders were an organisation whose specialism was equalities.

I replied that the EA2010 says sex, not gender. I also mentioned that there were some concerning resources produced by them, including an assembly where a dad wants to offer violence to children who do not accept his trans child. (I know no more than this)

The Head is going to talk to her other deputy head, whose responsibility this is, and to try to put us in contact.

Where do I do from here?

Can any one help me with evidence? What particularly is dodgy about No Outsiders?

Is there anything that states that schools mustn't misrepresent the EA?

Is there any DofE (or whatever it's called now) guidance for schools on the resources they used or how they represent the EA?

And, how should I go about finding out if the school uses other No Outsiders resources?

Please help, I want as much evidence as I can.

Still shaking with adrenaline from speaking to the Head!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Grammarnut · 26/01/2023 14:01

Vebrithien · 26/01/2023 10:46

No Outsiders message to the DepHead

Hi,

I do use the term gender rather than sex in primary schools. This is for two reasons:

I think the term sex muddies the issue. It means something else and young children can read it and think it’s funny. I also don’t want Y2 children going home saying “We learned about sex today” when they actually really talked about gender.
I think gender as a term is useful when you later talk about gender reassignment. You have your gender but then you can also reassign your gender. They fit together – it makes for uncomplicated explanations and conversations further up the school.

For this reason I am clear that the poster is not an Equality Act poster and it doesn’t mention the equality act on there. If we’re talking specifically about the Equality Act with older children and they use the term sex, I will correct them, but I think it is the concept behind the language for younger children that is more important – all different, all equal. The aim of the poster is to make clear and accessible for children all the ways we are different and all the ways we are accepted.

We sell hundreds of these posters and I am often re-ordering them from the printers. Every time I re-order I do consider changing the gender bubble to a sex bubble. But the more I think about it, I always conclude that when I teach children, and they list the ways we are all different, what words do they use? I have never heard a child use the term “sex” to describe boys and girls. Children in my school tend to say “you can be a different religion, different race, boys and girls, LGBT” In the end I don’t think it matters. Some people are definitely trying to make it a political issue, I just want children to know that there are boys and girls and everyone is equal.

I hope that helps. I’m interested if you think we should change the gender bubble in the future. Let me know your thoughts, eager to discuss.

Great to hear that no outsiders is going so well in your school.

'Sex' is the protected charisteristic and 'gender' has no clear definition. If the poster is purporting to show the legal position then it should say 'sex'.

MmePoppySeedDefage · 26/01/2023 14:13

So many times one sees the EA protected characteristics listed, specifically except with one amendment. Always the same one. Every time. I'm having the same tussle with a couple of professional institutions of which I am a member.

Why not go back to Sex Matters OP? They may be able to help you draft something.

Given they always change 'sex' to 'gender', it's clear they want to conflate the two, so we must resist it.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/01/2023 14:14

Sex' is the protected charisteristic and 'gender' has no clear definition. If the poster is purporting to show the legal position then it should say 'sex'.

They are pretending the poster is entirely unrelated to the legal Equalities Act though …

  • even though it shows 9 characteristics just like the EA has, and uses the exact EA wording for all of the other 8 EA characteristics , however difficult some of those would be for a child to understand,

(and even though one of those other 8 also has ‘sex’ in it which ‘could mean something else’ according to the provider, and could be sniggered at by a child, and could lead to a child telling their parent they had learnt about ‘sex m that day..)

It also, by pure coincidence, states that we are all ‘equal’ on the poster.

MmePoppySeedDefage · 26/01/2023 14:15

Th second lot of 'they' in my post were not referring to Sex Matters - oh i wish we could edit posts...

bignosebignose · 26/01/2023 14:16

I think you could make a reasonable argument that putting up eight of the nine protected characteristics but not the ninth is in and of itself a potential breach of the EA. Might at least make them pause to think, if nothing else.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 26/01/2023 14:38

I think the term sex muddies the issue. It means something else

Well, yes. That is exactly the point: 'sex' means a biological reality (and protected characteristic); 'gender' means something else. Conflating the 2 is what muddies the waters.

and young children can read it and think it’s funny

If you avoided everything that makes primary school children giggle, you'd not be able to teach anything at all.

BoredOfThisMansWorld · 26/01/2023 14:39

ScrollingLeaves · 26/01/2023 13:37

To add to the list of words ( also used in the EA) which a primary school child would find difficult to understand, and for which the provider has not provided a simplified alternative in line with their stated reason for changing ‘sex’ to ‘gender’, (or even in line with their feeling children would snigger at the word sex):

gender reassignment

civil partnership

sexual orientation ( which has ‘sex’ in so is as snigger worthy as sex)

race and ethnicity ( I feel a bit unclear about the nuances myself).

This.

I was thinking of my child's experience of being one of very few white kids in primary school. As he was the minority in his school environment, conversations on race and racism had to be more explicit and encompass wider society for examples, but I think they were important. Similarly I've discussed sexism with him from young age. He learned that meaning of "sex" before the other. Shouldn't all kids learn that meaning first?

Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 14:46

It's time for sinnerboys letter. You're being fobbed off.

And the person doing the posters etc is a child groomer.

SinnerBoy · 26/01/2023 14:49

MmePoppySeedDefage · Today 14:13

So many times one sees the EA protected characteristics listed, specifically except with one amendment. Always the same one. Every time.

Yes, that's strange, isn't it? I mean, we never hear of Race being replaced by shot putt, or triple jump. It's almost as if it's intentional.

Tinysoxxx · 26/01/2023 14:50

From her letter: *We proudly have the No Outsiders plaques and the posters around our federation of two schools.

A parent has commented that one of the pictures says 'gender' rather than 'sex' and all of the other 8 words are identical to the protected characteristics in the Equality Act 2010.

Can you help me to explain this to them?*

Patronising to you and worshipping to them. No wonder you are frustrated.

  1. teach children the right language. Use the sniggering (if there really was going to be a big problem) to teach them.
  2. Gender reassignment - that’s a much more difficult concept to understand. Can they explain that to primary children in as easy as sex in this = male or female (1).
  3. It is the duty of a primary school to prepare them for secondary school - where they have said ‘well we’ll revert to sex cos they’ll understand it’. You don’t teach them the wrong thing so it will be corrected later.

Pupils in Year 6 often have access to mobile phones. That Scottish rapist has been in the news this week. They need to know that gender is not protected.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 26/01/2023 16:11

I have copies and send the email from the DepHead and No Outsiders to Sex Matters, using the email address the replied to me on.

Hopefully they will reply to me.

OP posts:
Original poster
Vebrithien · 26/01/2023 16:14

I am so, so angry!

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 26/01/2023 16:15

Well, we're agog, waiting for their reply!

Original poster
Vebrithien · 26/01/2023 16:18

Sorry, meant to say that I'm waiting for Sex Matters to reply to me. I have sent nothing yet to the school. Never send an email in anger.

OP posts:
Original poster
Vebrithien · 26/01/2023 16:20

(Rant on MN instead!)

OP posts:
Tinysoxxx · 26/01/2023 16:31

Yvette Cooper, who has always been ‘very kind’ has this to say about sex and gender that proves your point that you need sex not gender on the poster:
twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1618532781595795458?cxt=HHwWhIC9haq_l_YsAAAA

SinnerBoy · 26/01/2023 16:52

Vebrithien · Today 16:18

Sorry, meant to say that I'm waiting for Sex Matters to reply to me.

Yes, I got that, I'm wondering what they'll have to say to the school....

SinnerBoy · 26/01/2023 16:54

TWAW!!! Shout Nicola, Lisa and Yvette.

Unless they're politically embarrassing rapists. Then they might not be.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 26/01/2023 17:03

"I’m interested if you think we should change the gender bubble in the future. Let me know your thoughts, eager to discuss."

So that'll be "yes, right now, a parent has complained and we'll take the posters down until it's done". Grin

I think they're not so much fobbing you off as trying to pass the buck. But (if I've got this right!) the legal responsibility still lies with the school who buys and uses the materials, and not with the outside organisation who provides it. It doesn't matter how the airhead at No Outsiders thinks the wording might be understood by children, it's the school who are legally responsible for what the poster says.

And as a parent, you don't want the school talking about "gender" when they mean "sex".

It's that simple really. If the school mess up, it will be on them, not No Thingies.

Could you thank them for sharing the email and point out that while it's all very interesting, as a parent you still don't want them to use the wrong word for sex, and remind them that they are responsible for whatever's on the posters in their school?

Caveats - I am not lawyer etc., Sex Matters or maybe Safer Schools Alliance will give you a better steer.

Best of luck!

Original poster
Vebrithien · 26/01/2023 17:50

Safe Schools Alliance!

How could I have forgotten them!

I have sent them an email, with the message stream from the DepHead and No Outsiders.

Asking for help.

OP posts:
WarriorN · 26/01/2023 18:05

Cripes, wow Well done for your actions so far! Posting on the hop making dinner...

My suggestion would be safe school alliance too

He's an outside agency and the school is under no obligation to use him.

He's blurring some important matters here - that you actually can't change sex. Kids have magical thinking and you can't talk about something as serious as this without being very clear.

The lessons / assemblies on trans that are available on his website are sexist and perpetuate gender stereotyping so go against the dfe guidance. (Eg uses the Teddy book who is male with a bow tie and female with a bow in hair. Pure sexism.)

WarriorN · 26/01/2023 18:06

Transgender trend have done pieces on him I'm sure

WarriorN · 26/01/2023 18:13

@Vebrithien I'm sending a pm

WarriorN · 26/01/2023 18:16

I need to read this more carefully but I thought the whole point of his stuff is that it teaches the EA? He's willfully twisting it and lying if he's now claiming he's not.

Sex absolutely matters and a transgender person still remains the same sex.

This is lying to children. Massive red safeguarding flag.