Model response to a dilemma for women in the left-right storm (really?)

[IwantToRetire]

So not satisfied with appropriating the work, ideas and campaigning of one woman and many active supporters, some complete set of nobody film makers have taken it upon themselves to school us silly air heads on how to behave and who to talk to.

Leaving aside the smug condescension of believing the have the right to tell us how to behave, this is a perfect example of where complete nobodies who exploit other people to further their own media career, then assume they are as politically relevant and analytically acute as actual activists.

kaygreen.blog/2022/12/31/model-response-to-a-dilemma-for-women-in-the-left-right-storm/

This is the problem with the media at the moment, presenters and film makers who are just the vehicle to get voices and ideas heard, then think they are entitled to become the spokes person.

Apart from anything else, did these nupties even think maybe we should ask those who the film was actually about. I know they would, having been hand selected as the appropriately politically aligned voices, also refused, but even within the unethical world of these self promoters, do they really think they take precedence.

But it does gives us a clear idea of their moral compass and how they felt able to bandwagon of others work and go to extreme lengths to make sure they are never referred to or acknowledged.

Imagine a world where...Tucker Carlson invited left wing feminists onto his show and spoke to them like human beings and women watching could see a whole other angle to life, the universe and everything.

We used to say if just ONE life is changed for the better it would be worth it.

Apparently not.

I bloody salute the women in the film who spoke with such bravery and passion about their experiences.

"A model response" is Kay green's opinion. So not the film makers.

It seems they did just ignore TC at first. Then were pushed by twitter to say no thank you and elaborate (I agree pious) description as to why.

The original post on this thread is clearly by someone who views KJK's work to have been appropriated, which I can appreciate. (having recently had the same done to me professionally and I'm furious.) It is however an entirely different approach to KJK's activism, as an art form / documentary. NOT by Matt Walsh. I Appreciated that film, I can't share it with some of my leftie besties though. This I can share. To open the conversation. L

The little I know about American left/ right divisions is that they're exceptionally deep and zero room for nuance. One lefty fitness mother of girls I spoke to in the deep south has read testosterone Rex and still felt trans id males should compete with girls at school.

Feminists (kjk - says she's not a feminist ) were criticised for "fraternising" with the right, and yet the reasoning was clear and her message has definitely reached the right people, along with others, (many republican voters) for action to be taken.

There's room for the reverse; deliberately attempting to reach only left leaning people. Remaining independent. All bases covered. Just as has been said for KJK et Al. These leftist people have an inbuilt filter that automatically rejects anything even slightly connected to the right. They cannot see nuance. They're happy Biden is in and Biden has TW in high roles. In their minds, It's a sacred caste. TC is evil, end of. As pp said, they'd watch to know what to oppose.

Lack of platform is a big issue, though being free adds an advantage.

It seems it's being translated into a number of languages which will help. Playing the long game is still part of the game.

There's room for the reverse; deliberately attempting to reach only left leaning people. Remaining independent. All bases covered. Just as has been said for KJK et Al. These leftist people have an inbuilt filter that automatically rejects anything even slightly connected to the right. They cannot see nuance. They're happy Biden is in and Biden has TW in high roles. In their minds, It's a sacred caste. TC is evil, end of. As pp said, they'd watch to know what to oppose.

If the left is so rigid and narrow-minded, then they aren't going to be reached via leftist platforms either. They already think TW are a "sacred caste" so any kind of criticism will be interpreted as right wing and therefore not heard. So what's the point of limiting the reach of your message and stopping other women from hearing it? Maybe there are women out there who are open to hearing it, but are disillusioned with the left and not watching left-wing media? Way more people watch Joe Rogan's show than they do mainstream media - should they be discounted because they're not sticking to their traditional political lines?

Also, why not be more confident of your message? Women might well be persuaded if the message is clear and makes sense to them, even if they're only watching to "know what to oppose". If you're speaking the truth, it's going to get through to at least some people, no matter where they hear it.

I agree but I do feel the context of American politics/ media/ feminism is a different kettle of fish.

We are lucky here.

Helen Lewis did a fab interview with Karen Stenner who researches authoritarianism in the US. She keeps her politics quiet though it's clear she's left leaning reading between lines. And yet she has had to become independent, out of academia, to get her research published and heard. Because a third of humanity are predisposed to authoritarianism there's nearly as much "left" authoritarianism as there is "right."

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000y7sq

So what's the point of limiting the reach of your message and stopping other women from hearing it?

TC definitely has sent "the message" out, with KJK and others. Matt Walsh for example. (Some also think fox is using this type of feminism to "soften their image.")

I do agree with this perspective, that you just get the message out far and wide what ever means. Thats definitely how Bindel uses the Mail, mainly around dv and trafficking. We will never know which way will benefit most here; the film makers have drawn their line.

This is advertising psychology. Some things do work better by word of mouth. It's not as fast, definitely. There's a lot of twitter discussion though and clicking on a number of "pro the decision tweets" reveals a few academics and women in the US who welcome the move. Plus it's being translated for Europe.

Either way, it is their decision whether to accept an offer or not. They did make it a statement, even from the beginning. And that is fine to as long as there is complete honesty in the motivation.

I have watched the video twice. I have sent it to a friend in the USA. Will he get it? I don't know. It is actually not that engaging if you are not actively interested in the topic. It is also feature length. The things like the squirrels, the baby, the vacuuming woman do not add a thing and detracts from it, in my opinion. Maybe someone thought they were a good idea.

It almost needs chapters embedded into it so people can move through it.

However, it is good and it will be assure many women watching it. Will it be informative and interesting to others, I hope so.

And to get back to KJK - because let's face it, this is what all this is about isn't it?

Yup. I have been waiting for this thread to mention KJK.

Like others I'm not angry about the film makers' decision. I'm not even surprised. Yes, I did find the film boring but plenty of others haven't. In fact, only 2 of us on this thread have said we didn't enjoy, as far as I can remember.

It's the statements.

It would have been good to have TC / trump fans seeing the great Aja and Bindel etc explaining why and how women are a sex class.

Agree It needed a better edit imo. Sterling interviews though. Aja's sentence that she thought women's rights were won will have spoken for many. That clip should have been first imo.

Yes this is about KJK. They wanted to get their film out before hers and give the message that they can do it cheaper and lay foundations for the 'right' message. They wanted to have a dig at KJK for going on Carlson show and enjoying it and not denouncing the far right.
Yes you can make a filmcheaper if you do an interview style film like they did instead of jetting across the Atlantic. The film is quite academic in its style whereas I suspect KJKs film will put the conclusions up front and then go into the detail, much more media savvy.
The model response was far too much waffle. If they chose to give up this opportunity they could simply have said thank you for the offer but our views do not align so we decline. I doubt the producer even bothered to read to the end of it as it was so condescending. TC will certainly not give them any free air time by saying we invited the film makers but...
This war on women and our words affects women and children of all political persuasions. If we don't reclaim our words we have no rights. Those fighting on the left can keep fighting in their narrow way but they are talking to a very niche group of people. When I talk to people on the streets at events the general public are oblivious to what is going on. They are the people we need to reach to turn the tide.
For clarity I support KJK and I support the valuable work that Julie Bindel et al do, I can't understand how intolerant they all are to each other when we are fighting for the word woman to remain as adult human female.

There's room for the reverse; deliberately attempting to reach only left leaning people. Remaining independent. All bases covered. Just as has been said for KJK et Al. These leftist people have an inbuilt filter that automatically rejects anything even slightly connected to the right. They cannot see nuance.

They cannot see nuance.

That is the problem. Right there. Why the film makers and other leftist women and groups don't want to go out of their bubble.

For clarity I support KJK and I support the valuable work that Julie Bindel et al do, I can't understand how intolerant they all are to each other when we are fighting for the word woman to remain as adult human female.

I don't think KJK has ever been intolerant of Bindel etc. she might have reacted to their criticism but she's never spoken badly of them, as far I know.

yes. So many great voices captured. It did get a little repetitive in one bite though and I am a highly involved audience member.

And yes. I think that that the entire world should see it but it really is the same old argument, isn't it?

The only people that will platform this will be the people that some feminists will shun. It could well be that the film makers do not think that they would be able to actually discuss this in a way that will be convincing with either a neutral or a not enthusiastically aligned interviewer. It could be purely that they are scared of 'guilt by association'.

They are free to make their own political views heard.

Was this a crowd funded video and the film makers do not have to make anything to break even by any chance?

The only people that will platform this will be the people that some feminists will shun.

The ring wing media is not the only option feminists have. It is one of many options.

The film has been platformed here on Mumsnet with all its millions of readers.

Surely the left-wing Graun will be acceptable...

gendercriticalwoman.blog/category/guardian/

Oh.

And it is actually getting pretty tiresome this whole 'KJK is NOT a feminist'.

Haven't Helen Joyce and Maya Forstater also now made that same declaration after the fall out from Brighton? Who were lauded as feminists only 12 months ago ?

I find it very worrisome really. She has made the declaration because she was effectively having 'you say you are a feminist but ....' used as a reason to discredit her. Said by one group of feminists.

Let's not lose sight of why she says it.

Ok. I love your confidence. I do not share it at all. I do not think that they will make enough from YouTube clicks to cover their costs.

Can you tell me if this has been a crowdfunded film please Sappho?

I have no idea how they funded it. I believe it was about £5k in total.

I don't think KJK has ever been intolerant of Bindel etc. she might have reacted to their criticism but she's never spoken badly of them, as far I know.

She recently said she'd quite like to hang out with JB.

Pre free release they sold tickets to public showings in various venues (that weren't banned like Edinburgh) and I believe had some donations.

Wow £5K. That seems very lean for all the travel and time to capture the women's voices. Let alone the time to edit it. But I guess in that case if they didn't plan for it to make a higher revenue, they can afford to take their principled stance.

KJK is NOT a feminist' - I only ever say that she says she isn't. I don't know how the hell she isn't though. She's as radical as they come.

They cannot see nuance.

That is the problem. Right there. Why the film makers and other leftist women and groups don't want to go out of their bubble.

Bubbles reaching out to bubbles maybe...

The film has been platformed here on Mumsnet with all its millions of readers.

It had very little interest before TRAs started getting screenings cancelled.

The only people from Mumsnet who will watch it is probably the people who already are very familiar with the issues. It certainly would not be something I would rely on.

Weren't we told a couple of years ago there was only 6 of us? That the rest of us are just socks having discussions between ourselves.... ahh.... I remember that with many laughs.

Bubbles reaching out to bubbles maybe...

Yes, maybe. But some of those bubbles are already converted but in other leftist bubbles, as beastly says, there will be much resistance because trans ideology and TW are sacred.