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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Model response to a dilemma for women in the left-right storm (really?)

483 replies

IwantToRetire · 01/01/2023 19:10

So not satisfied with appropriating the work, ideas and campaigning of one woman and many active supporters, some complete set of nobody film makers have taken it upon themselves to school us silly air heads on how to behave and who to talk to.

Leaving aside the smug condescension of believing the have the right to tell us how to behave, this is a perfect example of where complete nobodies who exploit other people to further their own media career, then assume they are as politically relevant and analytically acute as actual activists.

kaygreen.blog/2022/12/31/model-response-to-a-dilemma-for-women-in-the-left-right-storm/

This is the problem with the media at the moment, presenters and film makers who are just the vehicle to get voices and ideas heard, then think they are entitled to become the spokes person.

Apart from anything else, did these nupties even think maybe we should ask those who the film was actually about. I know they would, having been hand selected as the appropriately politically aligned voices, also refused, but even within the unethical world of these self promoters, do they really think they take precedence.

But it does gives us a clear idea of their moral compass and how they felt able to bandwagon of others work and go to extreme lengths to make sure they are never referred to or acknowledged.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 06/01/2023 17:58

And I hate that term 'gender critical'. I don't actually know many people who use that term to refer to what they believe. I am sure there are plenty, but not really anyone I speak to regularly.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 06/01/2023 18:00

Helleofabore · 06/01/2023 17:57

Yeah. I don't think he is 'gender critical'. I think he believes that biological sex cannot change. For some different motivation.

yep, I don't love 'gender critical' and don't use it to describe myself

but the clue really is in the name (assuming you accept that gender = sexist stereotypes)

do we think Tucker Carlson is critical of sexist stereotypes? erm nope. I don't think he gives two shits about such things

Helleofabore · 07/01/2023 05:51

Onnabugeisha · 06/01/2023 15:28

Lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣
You post all this stuff below about Paul Rand and now you have been shown to do exactly what you were accusing me of, you’re going to try and just sweep it under the carpet….with a meh it’s not even relevant….You said he’s not trying to ban abortions which is now proven false and you repeatedly accused me of being polarised, absolutist, exaggerating his views, intent on discrediting, peddling half truths.

But instead of saying ooops I was wrong about Paul Rand and wrong to levy all those accusations at me, you decide to pivot and say it’s all irrelevant anyway…everything you posted.

You’re priceless. Absolutely priceless. And you wonder why people get heated with you?

Helleofabore · Yesterday 19:21
”While much has been made of her ‘campaigning’ with Rand Paul, let us be very clear what that involves.…” “And very clear about what he has said. Yes. He is upfront about being pro-life with exceptions. I am not excusing him. But he has also been upfront about not ‘banning’ all abortions.

“The senator, who co-sponsors a bill that would largely ban abortions at or after 20 weeks of pregnancy, indicated he thinks it's best, at least for now, to let state governments decide if (and how) to restrict abortion.”

Currently law in the UK is abortion is legal til around 24 weeks.

He has also expressed he supports abortion when either child or mother are at risk.”…
”I think it is very important to be very clear about who believes what and supports who.

Sometimes posters seem intent on discrediting women for being single issue. And for not being ‘left wing’.

This seems to be another example of that. Feel free to post links to the contrary.”

Helleofabore · Yesterday 20:06
“And I think it is also quite clear that some posters have exaggerated Rand Paul's position on abortion as well, or it is simply a continued reflection on their very own absolutist positions.”

Helleofabore · Today 08:16
How dare you even try and portray him as some sort of moderate pro-choice politician. This is what Paul Rand published as a campaign promise (me)

”Abortion is a very complex issue. And you seem to have an absolutist view on the topic. I am aware of what he has posted.
I am also well aware he declared he wasn’t advocating to ‘ban’ abortion in his state in quite the manner your posts suggests.”…
”Do you consider the current English abortion laws pro-life? They are within 4 weeks of the laws that Paul was supporting. He was against state funding, I don’t agree with him. But you seem to be keen to use the word ‘ban’ to imply he is ‘banning’ abortion fully.”

Helleofabore · Today 11:33
”You can keep cycling around and around here. You have made the discussion about a man. You have peddled half truths in your pursuit of polarisation.”

Helleofabore · Today 11:34
“www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/61

eu.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2022/07/28/rand-paul-vs-charles-booker-how-race-could-affect-abortion-in-the-us/10014264002/

Don't let facts and evidence stand in the way of whatever you think you are achieving here!”

I have reread this.

I still really have no idea what you thought you were highlighting here.

I note that you chose to not copy and paste the bits that show my focus was on Riley Gaines who you still have not shown has any intention of campaigning to ban abortion.

I think all you have done is show that I have remained consistent in my posting.

It must really infuriate you. But I am quite sure, since you clearly have a superior intellect, that you will point out exactly where I have deviated in my discussion about Riley Gaines as you have accused me of.

I mentioned Riley first on page 11 at 18.25 where I posted a list of feminists (9 episodes initially) appearing on Tucker Carlson in the past two years discussing this issue. In response to the claims there has been enough feminists on Tucker Carlson’s show so why would the feminist who made a film with feminists voices go on the show.

And yes, I included someone that perhaps is not a feminist and agreed to drop the list to 8. Then the discussion about Riley Gaines started in earnest. I even offered pages later to just exclude Riley and say there were just 7 episodes - 3 with Kara Dansky. But your ‘guilt by association’ accusations against Riley just continued with no evidence but your theory based on guilt by association.

You seemed to have missed copying and pasting all my posts discussing how you used that guilt by association on the preceding pages ( page 11 to 15) before you started to copy and paste. Because they are relevant to the context and paint a whole different story to your claim.

However, Specifically your claim of:

”you’re going to try and just sweep it under the carpet….with a meh it’s not even relevant”

seems rather dishonest.

Even on some of the posts you snipped from: (for convenience, page 15 is where your snips start)

Helleofabore · 05/01/2023 19:21
I have today looked at Riley Gaines. I have found no information as to her opinion towards abortion

While much has been made of her ‘campaigning’ with Rand Paul,… (shortened for relevance)

So… clearly a post about Riley’s belief and you’re leveraging your interpretation of a man she did some campaigning with on women’s sport.

The post on the 5th Jan at20.06 was my reply to delphinium about …. Riley Gaines.

The post on the 6th Jan at 08.16 again discussed Riley Gaines.

The post on the 6th Jan at 11.33 included the link to the article about his co-sponsoring of a law to legalize abortion up to 20 weeks. Because you had twice stated that my reference (that being the January 2022 bill) referred to something a decade old

Here at 6th January 09.48
”You posted a sentence he said over a decade ago in which he merely states the States should decide on abortion when he was pushing for Roe v. Wade to be overturned. I have posted what is currently in his webpages. He is seeking to ban abortion in his State.”

and

Then again at 10.10

Unless the evidence is their actions, because that don’t mean shit to Helleofabore . She only goes by what people say. And she prefers to cut and paste comments said a decade ago out of context as her evidence instead of what they’re saying today, right now on their own professional webpages.

That was the only reason I posted the link in the first place (interestingly you posted the same bill in your later post- not sure you realised that).

Your snipped bit about that 11.33 post is quite enlightening when readers now read your contributions on this thread.

In any case the 11.33 post also was focused on Riley Gaines and your accusations against her.

And the final supposed gotcha was the one at 11.34. Which was again directly relating to your post at 6th January 10.10 posted in its entirety above.

It was the only post you selected that did not include a bringing back of the topic to Riley Gaines. Because it came directly after the 11.33 post. I didn’t think I needed to again mention Riley Gaines.

And I feel confident about my statements of your posts showing you hold views based on thinking that is “polarised, absolutist, exaggerating his views, intent on discrediting, peddling half truths.” in light of the factual errors in some of your statements.

( yes, I misread your intention in posting the bill about prohibiting congress making laws about abortion for the state - apologies, I am on a small screen)

Particulary the factual errors you repeated in the quote I posted being about statements ‘from a decade’ ago and that Paul was responsible for Kentucky “banning abortion” and even that he was responsible for ‘banning’ abortion in the fullest sense of the word, while CO-SPONSORING three bills legalising abortion to 20 weeks Ie; not just remove funding, provide adequate counselling to women and girls before the decision is final, and his expectation that parents of minors should know, and that the states should make decisions themselves.

I don’t agree that his actions has shown he has ‘banned’ abortion in the absolutist way you have described, using highly emotionally manipulative tactics. And you agreed that England has not ‘banned’ abortion with its limited access.

Your posts around this man lack consistency. But from what I can gather, despite all your posts into the deep dive to prove otherwise, nothing I said in the post of 05/01/2023 19:21 , which you have posted most of in the quoted text, above was incorrect.

It is your own conclusions, and determination to ignore the three co-sponsored bills that seems to be the issue. You have remained entrenched in what you believe every person who is ‘pro-life’ in turn believes.

And so.

Would you like to explain your post about how I supposedly pivoted that brought you to declare this :

”you’re going to try and just sweep it under the carpet….with a meh it’s not even relevant”

and this;

”you decide to pivot and say it’s all irrelevant anyway…everything you posted.”

Because I find your post quite dishonest and bewilderingly. It is no surprise though. I am not seeing me sweeping anything under any carpet and have consistently maintained that my focus was Riley Gaines.

I really do not think your posts shows what you meant it to show.

Oh. And please explain without the personal attacks.

(By the way, I post all this partly in an attempt to fulfill you challenge the other day where you said of my method of posting ‘It is academically dishonest and wouldn’t pass journalistic ethics much less any peer review.’)

** I have used hard dates for clarity for future readers.

Helleofabore · 07/01/2023 05:56

To be clear: most of the references to posts with dates and time are from the quoted post.

I am on a very small screen otherwise I would have used another method of referencing.

Britinme · 07/01/2023 14:23

Just to back you up @Helleofabore , Rand Paul would have had absolutely no direct connection with any state law in Kentucky. He is their Senator in the US Congress but only the state senators and representatives would be able to draft legislation in the state not governed by federal legislation and only the governor would be able to sign it. Paul would have had influence of course - he is a Republican Senator in a red state so it has to be assumed that his views are in line with the state chambers even though the majority of actual voters apparently disagree with the idea of an abortion ban. In case that seems odd, think about the way voting districts are organised and who organises them.

Helleofabore · 07/01/2023 15:29

Thanks brit.

The senate is set up in a similar fashion to my own home country’s. I expect that I am rather more familiar with how it works than at first glance. I just needed confirmation.

The degree of influence a senator has over state laws of the state they represent is only ‘influence’ if a) the senator exactly falls in line with the faction of the party in power in that state and b) of course, if the senator is the same party as in power at the time.

For all the posts yesterday, the inconsistency of the claims are still clear. The claim lacks consistency because of the three co-sponsored bills.

Helleofabore · 08/01/2023 23:41

just for any of those interested in seeing a messaging guide with some tips on how to convince people and it discusses the basics on needing political strategies .

static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

Helleofabore · 08/01/2023 23:41

That document was released Dec 2021

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