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Original poster

Model response to a dilemma for women in the left-right storm (really?)

483 replies

IwantToRetire · 01/01/2023 19:10

So not satisfied with appropriating the work, ideas and campaigning of one woman and many active supporters, some complete set of nobody film makers have taken it upon themselves to school us silly air heads on how to behave and who to talk to.

Leaving aside the smug condescension of believing the have the right to tell us how to behave, this is a perfect example of where complete nobodies who exploit other people to further their own media career, then assume they are as politically relevant and analytically acute as actual activists.

kaygreen.blog/2022/12/31/model-response-to-a-dilemma-for-women-in-the-left-right-storm/

This is the problem with the media at the moment, presenters and film makers who are just the vehicle to get voices and ideas heard, then think they are entitled to become the spokes person.

Apart from anything else, did these nupties even think maybe we should ask those who the film was actually about. I know they would, having been hand selected as the appropriately politically aligned voices, also refused, but even within the unethical world of these self promoters, do they really think they take precedence.

But it does gives us a clear idea of their moral compass and how they felt able to bandwagon of others work and go to extreme lengths to make sure they are never referred to or acknowledged.

OP posts:
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/01/2023 22:55

they don't want right wing women to see their film

I didn't say that, so dunno on that one

but on the subject of being a judgey pants, of course the film makers judge people who go on TC. They chose not to, and moreover chose to announce their decision to the world for maximum head pats.

Delphinium20 · 03/01/2023 23:57

I agree with @Onnabugeisha that in the states the PR tactics that work for UK women may not be in the best interest of US women. You don’t want the message receivers/audience to be biased against and thus reject the message because of the messengers’ clear alignment or association with movements that are extremist or anti-feminist in any way.

One obstacle I hit over and over is, "well, if transwomen in same sex places is an issue or or affirming trans children is problematic, the MSM would be covering it."

So, like it or not, most left wing people who need persuasion will not be swayed by a TC-only coverage.

Americans are deeply tribal when it comes to Conservative vs Liberal. We don't have any real nuance. Most people trust almost exclusively left wing only or right wing only media.

toomanytrees · 04/01/2023 00:03

What about independent voters?

Onnabugeisha · 04/01/2023 00:04

Delphinium20 · 03/01/2023 23:57

I agree with @Onnabugeisha that in the states the PR tactics that work for UK women may not be in the best interest of US women. You don’t want the message receivers/audience to be biased against and thus reject the message because of the messengers’ clear alignment or association with movements that are extremist or anti-feminist in any way.

One obstacle I hit over and over is, "well, if transwomen in same sex places is an issue or or affirming trans children is problematic, the MSM would be covering it."

So, like it or not, most left wing people who need persuasion will not be swayed by a TC-only coverage.

Americans are deeply tribal when it comes to Conservative vs Liberal. We don't have any real nuance. Most people trust almost exclusively left wing only or right wing only media.

Yes, they are very tribal.
For example, good number of democrats watching TC are hate-watching. Seeing this issue on there…well it tells them what to oppose.

Onnabugeisha · 04/01/2023 00:08

toomanytrees · 04/01/2023 00:03

What about independent voters?

Most independent voters in the US are even more ethics oriented than the average Joe Public. They are largely voters fed up with a de facto two party system that constantly offers them the chance to vote between two evils and refuse to pragmatically vote for the “lesser of two evils.”

No independent party in the USA has any real political power, so independent votes are largely protest votes.

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 00:12

toomanytrees · 04/01/2023 00:03

What about independent voters?

I'd argue they are vital to win elections, but not easy to pin down their priorities. What I hear the most from independent voters is "economy, healthcare, CEO pay, and foreign relations" not sure if feminism is on their radar as much.

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 00:18

The greatest coup de etat by TRAs has been journalism. There's been few topics so uniformly ignored by MSM as this one. I'm absolutely stumped by it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/01/2023 00:21

Im not convinced that having some ethical red lines in the means you are willing to employ to attain a goal is to the detriment of effective campaigning.

Aren't you? Fascinating.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/01/2023 00:22

For example, good number of democrats watching TC are hate-watching. Seeing this issue on there…well it tells them what to oppose.

Doesn't that depend on how convincing the message is?

SapphosRock · 04/01/2023 07:32

I just think their tactics are ineffective and divisive. And their statement is virtue signalling nonsense. And their film is boring. I wish they'd be more interesting and effective, that's all.

Some people will engage with right wing news platforms and / or exciting social media videos of violent TRAs shouting and fighting at a rally. Some people will engage with calm, measured women explaining the negative impact gender ideology has on women. Horses for courses.

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 07:44

SapphosRock · 04/01/2023 07:32

I just think their tactics are ineffective and divisive. And their statement is virtue signalling nonsense. And their film is boring. I wish they'd be more interesting and effective, that's all.

Some people will engage with right wing news platforms and / or exciting social media videos of violent TRAs shouting and fighting at a rally. Some people will engage with calm, measured women explaining the negative impact gender ideology has on women. Horses for courses.

Sappho.

Can you explain in detail your comparison here?

Are you, personally, now making claims that Kellie Jay Keen is so how responsible for TRA protestors or that she shouldn’t be posting the live streams of her rallies? Because that seems to be the implication of your words. Is that what you mean?

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 07:59

Some how not so how

SapphosRock · 04/01/2023 08:07

No @Helleofabore

I was saying undoubtedly content from KJK is more edgy and exciting for some people and some people will be put off by it.

The poster I quoted found the Adult Human Female film boring. Lots of people think it is great and believe the women featured are doing brilliant work. I think it was anything but boring.

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 08:09

SapphosRock · 04/01/2023 08:07

No @Helleofabore

I was saying undoubtedly content from KJK is more edgy and exciting for some people and some people will be put off by it.

The poster I quoted found the Adult Human Female film boring. Lots of people think it is great and believe the women featured are doing brilliant work. I think it was anything but boring.

And the comparison with ‘right wing media’?

RoyalCorgi · 04/01/2023 08:16

I'm surprised to see so many posters claiming not to have enjoyed the film and to be angry that the film-makers refused to go on Tucker Carlson. If the film is so awful, why do you care?

Personally I thought the film was excellent and enjoyed it a good deal. But it's up to the film-makers which tv shows they do and don't go on. The film has a very British focus so I can't see much is to be gained by going on a US tv show. And Carlson isn't "right wing" in the way that, say, Liz Truss is right-wing. He's far to the right of that, and is deeply anti-feminist. Why would they want to use him as a platform to promote their views?

beastlyslumber · 04/01/2023 08:41

Fwiw I don't find footage of TRAs shouting to be exciting either. Bit of a weird assumption that I was bored by the film because it didn't have enough violence! Actually, I would like to see more storytelling. I thought the Matt Walsh film was excellent because the storytelling was so well-crafted.

And I'm not "angry" that the filmmakers wouldn't go on TC. I just think it's silly.

I think it's fine for them to do whatever they like - make a boring film and refuse to promote it. Fine. The only bit that somewhat annoys me is the statement that this is a "model response" because clearly it's an extremely political and partisan response.

SapphosRock · 04/01/2023 08:46

I also enjoyed the Matt Walsh film but I still think he's a raging misogynist.

SapphosRock · 04/01/2023 08:49

And the comparison with ‘right wing media’?

KJK has chosen to speak to Tucker Carlson on Fox News.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/01/2023 08:50

Certainly my issue is not the film makers not wanting to publicise their film through certain channels, it’s their pomposity

I have had it up to here with virtue signalling left wingers who think they own feminism. It’s such a small minded position. And my attitude to the film makers and their silly statement is informed by that

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/01/2023 08:51

What Bernard said.

Floisme · 04/01/2023 08:52

Americans are deeply tribal when it comes to Conservative vs Liberal. We don't have any real nuance. Most people trust almost exclusively left wing only or right wing only media.

Delphinium20 that's a very stark picture, and you know your country better than I do, but there must be significant numbers who don't identify strongly with either tribe? Surely? Otherwise how does a change of government ever happen? And wouldn't this be the very group everyone wants to reach and influence?

Floisme · 04/01/2023 08:59

And to get back to KJK - because let's face it, this is what all this is about isn't it? - what I find exciting, thrilling even, about her events is that she encourages women who've never made a speech in their lives to get up and speak in public. I think it's a genius idea.

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 09:01

Of course, Kellie Jay is not right wing.

She just happened to speak on a widely watched show, watched by both sides of the political line (despite other's assertions).

And Julie Bindel and other feminists also writes on media that is considered 'right wing'. I notice no feminists continue to make those associations with Julie Bindel or those other feminists.

Just for clarification for any person wanting to start 'guilt by association' type of statements again.

RoyalCorgi · 04/01/2023 09:16

I feel like I've said this many, many times before, but there's right-wing and there's far right-wing. You'll see plenty of left-wing women working happily with Conservative politicians such as Emma Nicholson and Miriam Cates. The American Christian right is a wholly different kettle of fish - much more akin in their views to fascists (and I hate using that word, because it's overused, but this is really what we're talking about). Not only do they have extremist views, but they are very deeply anti-women. It's like expecting Martin Luther King to ally himself with the KKK because they've found an issue on which they have common ground. Who gains from such an alliance between feminists and the far right? Clue: it's not the feminists.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/01/2023 09:20

And to get back to KJK - because let's face it, this is what all this is about isn't it? - what I find exciting, thrilling even, about her events is that she encourages women who've never made a speech in their lives to get up and speak in public. I think it's a genius idea.

This. She really gives everyone a voice, which is a huge part of her appeal.