Model response to a dilemma for women in the left-right storm (really?)

[IwantToRetire]

So not satisfied with appropriating the work, ideas and campaigning of one woman and many active supporters, some complete set of nobody film makers have taken it upon themselves to school us silly air heads on how to behave and who to talk to.

Leaving aside the smug condescension of believing the have the right to tell us how to behave, this is a perfect example of where complete nobodies who exploit other people to further their own media career, then assume they are as politically relevant and analytically acute as actual activists.

kaygreen.blog/2022/12/31/model-response-to-a-dilemma-for-women-in-the-left-right-storm/

This is the problem with the media at the moment, presenters and film makers who are just the vehicle to get voices and ideas heard, then think they are entitled to become the spokes person.

Apart from anything else, did these nupties even think maybe we should ask those who the film was actually about. I know they would, having been hand selected as the appropriately politically aligned voices, also refused, but even within the unethical world of these self promoters, do they really think they take precedence.

But it does gives us a clear idea of their moral compass and how they felt able to bandwagon of others work and go to extreme lengths to make sure they are never referred to or acknowledged.

Hey wims, any of you deny that some activists who want to prioritise sex over gender when sex is important are not feminists???

And some not even female??

No??

What about knowing the difference between a male who has sexist motives for keeping the definition of woman as adult human female?

I think we all know who they are right???

Yes. That middle ground or unaligned group could be as high as half the country, considering that half the country does not vote. But that is itself the problem because we primarily only get entrenched tribe members showing up to the polls.

To win, the GOP and the Dems each need to reach a minority of independent, sway-able voters who they believe will show up to the polls. Some topics, like getting rid of Trump and abortion makes otherwise lackadaisical people show up and vote. At some point, enough parents w/ damaged children will swing the polls, but i don't see it widespread yet. One example of the Dems losing as a result of their stupid gender woo was in VA. When the Virginia GOP realized they could use the trans issue as a possible swing voter switch, they jumped in, appropriated feminist arguments, distanced themselves from Trump and took up the anti-academic distress over leveling math classes in public schools, and narrowly won the Virginia governor's election. But did the Dems learn this lesson? Not sure.

Most Dem voters will continue to vote Dem despite what they personally feel if asked about the GC issues. I am a perfect example of this - When forced between 2 choices, I vote for Dems because abortion, gun control, getting rid of Trump, and climate change were more important to me than gender identity.

To change Dem policy stances on Gender Identity, we need a sea change, an influencer on the left who isn't hated (I suspect Hillary Clinton is a Terf, she's too damn smart not to be one) but she's hated by so many Dems and progressives that her voice would backfire.

We need a beloved cultural voice, like you have JKRowling. Like Michelle Obama or Oprah.

Sadly, the women who'd listen to Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris or Gloria Steinem are the women who should hear this film but they do not watch TC. The three feminists I mentioned have been heartbreakingly disappointing on this topic. Steinem stood up to NY Dem Governor on surrogacy, but she won't stand up to Biden on gender woo.

Martina Navartilova, a lesbian and a Democrat, has spoken up but it's not gained her any friends. She's been roundly ignored.

There is that polarisation again. You are the one pushing that she must believe x because she has associated with y.

I have never once said she was forced to do anything. Please cut and paste where I have.

I have suggested that she may have different views than what you are forcing on her through having not one shred of evidence at all.

This is an example of ‘guilt by association’. As is attributing the exact same motivation to sexist males as you have to feminists.

And you are trying to steel man your weak argument through using a wider description than is actually relevant. Just like when you called me a racist because I ignored your attempts to dismiss what happened to the women in Oakland. This is you doing this again.

The film is about feminism and mostly feminists except Simon Edge. Who, by the way is probably a sound example of an activist who prioritises sex over gender when it matters particularly for females who have unique needs due their body, who is not a feminist.

You trying to shoehorn in other activists, some Actually fighting for women’s rights and others not at all, is you trying to make out there are more feminists fighting pro-women stances than there is.

And we are on MN. Fuck! If you want to defence your ‘paper’ I would suggest that you at the very least get your definitions right and only ascribe the correct motivations to the groups motivated by it.

Feminist voices supporting sex over gender where it matters is the only direct comparison for a film by feminists with all feminist voices bar one.

You trying to shoehorn in other activists, some Actually fighting for women’s rights and others not at all, is you trying to make out there are more feminists fighting pro-women stances than there is.

on Tucker Carlson is the ending to that sentence.

If the left is so rigid and narrow-minded, then they aren't going to be reached via leftist platforms either. They already think TW are a "sacred caste" so any kind of criticism will be interpreted as right wing and therefore not heard. So what's the point of limiting the reach of your message and stopping other women from hearing it?

Completely disagree. If the leaders of the Dem tribe change their mind, these people will too. It's why they are so entrenched...they think they are on the right side because of their tribe. If the tribe changes course, they will too.

Delph, what do you think, other than a celeb voice, will swing it? Or just as you say, when the damaged children and the suing gets too much?

Is there any hope that the changes in Sweden and the U.K. will filter through?

Im heartened by the latest links Helle has posted on break it down for me thread (thank you Hellebore) will academia / medical ethics wake up?

There must be more like Suzanne Forbes-Vierling; how does she not get cancelled?

A second q to the thread, sorry if I've missed it, do the documentary makers want to be platformed by anyone? I know they've done private zoom q and a with anyone who knew about it and wanted to join.

Gov. Kristi Noem is no feminist. She's banning abortion access.

Completely disagree. If the leaders of the Dem tribe change their mind, these people will too. It's why they are so entrenched...they think they are on the right side because of their tribe. If the tribe changes course, they will too.

But the leaders are not going to change their minds because they are following the people. Look at Keir Starmer over here. - can't talk about women without squirming. Neither Democrats nor Labour leaders are brave enough.

It might happen but you/we will be waiting a jolly long time.

I agree with Riley Gaines about the sports issue, but she's not a feminist. She's an athlete who loves Trump and is sad he's been smeared (eyeroll).

Hi all

This thread is quickly descending - please can we have a bit of peace and love?

Not sure saying it louder helped Bernard.

But this seems very much like deja vu. This discussion is so cyclical and it is certainly spiraling in. Looks and quacks like a purity spiral, but one designed for us by feminists with motives that are becoming clearer and clearer.

With all this discussion about what appearing on Tucker's show actually accomplishes, I went back and watched one of Kara Dansky's appearances, which now has 1.7 million views on YouTube.

Some of the top-voted YT comments:

I like this lady. She’s a paid up Democrat but not afraid to say that a woman is a woman and a man is a man. Very brave lady, swimming against the tide.

I'm glad someone is finally calling gender identity what it truly is, nonsense and discrimination.

Another lifelong registered Democrat here who completely agrees with every word this woman said. Hopefully the lawsuit she wrote a brief for goes all the way to the Supreme Court.

Refreshing to hear.. people need to stop making their identity based around party lines.
You can be a Democrat and no be anti police and you can be a republican and be pro choice.. it's wierd how people feel the need to go all in on one side or the other..

I completely agree with her plea. We have to stop using that language just to be nice. There are times when we have to speak the straight truth no matter how unpopular it is.

She's the first progressive woman I've seen take a stand against all this bs. Good for her. Biology is real science is real

I can't believe it. It's been SO LONG since I agreed with a feminist, let alone a democrat. So refreshing to hear someone so smart representing the democrat side of the spectrum. It gives me hope bc it means there are still things we can work on TOGETHER.

Good to know that feminism isn’t 100% man hating like most media portrays. There are actually still some feminists that want the advancement of women without the need to crap on men. Thank you and I honestly hope something great happens to you today.

I'm sure I will be accused of cherry-picking these responses, but they are genuinely what comes to the top when I sort by "top comments" on this YouTube segment. Even if they were a minority, I think that these Fox viewers' apparently sincere responses to Kara's outreach are worth the effort she put into it.

It is important to keep this women's rights issue in the public eye. More opportunities means more discussions of the various impacts, from sports, to shelters to health care to privacy and dignity, to children and schools. It also lets people know they are not alone. That is why the opposition is so intent to shut it down. They know the left leaning media will not touch it and they fear the ideas will leak out from Fox News. If they didn't think Fox News was effective, they wouldn't argue so vehemently against it.

this is brilliant

great to see such a fantastic response to Kara

So we are back to no person who supports Trump over Biden is a true feminist?

I get it, he is a horrible vile human being.

But do you have anything else other than her vote?

Because I have voted labour without fully supporting (even being very much against) some of there policies. I have voted Lib Dems and not been on board with some of their policies.

I guess I don’t treat people solely on their voting history. And it is exactly like the ‘guilt by association’ in this instance. If you choose to define feminism as fully excluding any one who might be conservative on some issues while not being conservative on women’s rights, well I guess we will always disagree.

The thing is delphinium for the sake of the ‘argument’ Riley wasn’t even important as I said. Taking her from the list shows that there is even less feminist representation on Tucker Carlson discussing the conflicts where one group’s demands are negatively impacting on those needed for females, for women and children.

But the leaders are not going to change their minds because they are following the people.

Maybe...I tend to ignore a lot of the 'Follow the gender woo money' because some of it appears to get a bit too conspiracy-like, but I can't ignore that there are Democrats, like Republicans, who have deep-pocketed donors. It's why Bernie Sander's ant-capitalist message resonated with so many people. Eventually, you have to follow the people, but right now, like the above commentators on the YouTube video, Dems who disagree are just anonymous internet warriors and can't break through to the OFFICIAL DEM PARTY. BTW, those comments are very typical to ones I've read on the NYTimes and WaPo...regular Dems, liberals and a lot of progressives, when asked the right questions, don't believe TWAW and don't believe they belong in women's spaces or sports.

That's why I push grassroots letter writing to your senators, reps, etc.

I truly hope Kara Dansky's tireless work will be rewarded. She's not flashy nor controversial but she's damn tenacious. NYTimes should really, really platform her. I tell them that all the time ;)

In a nutshell, I find people who demand political purity to be rather tribal.

I also don’t assume that someone supports all a candidates manifesto just because they vote for them. Because that seems to me to be very tribal indeed.

One other thing I hope to try this year: to get a face to face w/ a local political representative. While I've written to senators, I often get canned responses that clearly are written by young aids who use the party line. I imagine some of them are TRA activists refuse to filer to the senators what is being said.

A face to face w/ a rep to hear my voice, as a constituent mom who's seen the damage of gender identity in schools and sports. This is my personal goal this year.

I'll keep you posted.

Good luck

My aim is to write more letters to my MP who follows the strict party line.

But to also hand out more leaflets! That was enlightening to see just how much of the population already know about the issues. Some great debates were had even in the drizzle!

Best of luck, Delph! They really are supposed to meet with their constituents, even if it's a staffer instead of the rep him/herself.

In a nutshell, I find people who demand political purity to be rather tribal.

@Helleofabore I don't care what you think. You won't suffer under the political consequences of a US Republican majority. I have DDs and sisters and friends who may need abortions and won't be able to get one. My kids have never known a school year (including nursery) w/out an active shooter drill and I am pretty sure I've been to more funerals of kids dead by gunfire than you ever have. American feminist politics are more than a narrow UK GC lens.

Dems who disagree are just anonymous internet warriors and can't break through to the OFFICIAL DEM PARTY. BTW, those comments are very typical to ones I've read on the NYTimes and WaPo...regular Dems, liberals and a lot of progressives, when asked the right questions, don't believe TWAW and don't believe they belong in women's spaces or sports.

Yes, I get it about regular folks. When push comes to shove, not many actually believe in the ideology but their voices are small or afraid because of the hostile atmosphere created by the very vocal minority. It requires a sea change in culture.

Kara Dansky is amazing and shouldn't be criticised for utilising whatever media outlets are available. The dismissive attitude and arrogance of the film makers towards her was completely uncalled for.

In an earlier post you mentioned lacking a cultural figure in the States. I wish Oprah would stand up and say something. I am not even aware is she has said anything either way tbh.

@Helleofabore good luck to you too.

I got heated w/ you in my last post. I'm sorry, but please consider we have different situations.

Damn...and I said I wouldn't get mad with feminists on MN...ugh. so much for new year's resolutions.

I like the leaflets and sticker ideas. I have some US feminist friends on Ovarit and they are sticker QUEENS!!!

Sorry to derail w/ US stuff...I stick w/ MN because 1. I love it and you witches are so damn smart 2. I have shamelessly used your arguments to do what I can in my country.

Sharing a language makes this easy. Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie uses her English and her Nigerian to help women and I often wonder what kind of MN FWR versions there are in other languages. Korean feminists sometimes post on Ovarit and I've learned a lot from them as well.