Women's rights general conversations - Thread 2

[Kucingsparkles]

Continuation of Thread 1

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

I didn't know where else to ask this so I hope it's ok to ask here. I know that as far as TRAs are concerned, disagreeing with them means you are Far Right and Bad. But what does right wing mean exactly? If you lean to the left, does right wing automatically mean Bad and Wrong? Because that's how I was brought up to think and now, well, I think it's more nuanced than that. And I have no idea where I fit politically any more at all.

I'm an immigrant, but the wrong type for Labour to be interested in because my reason for being here is that I love the UK. I worry that because I find myself in a more socially conservative mindset (families are important and mothers have value within the domestic sphere) , that anything I say will be dismissed as right wing and thus worthless.

I mean, I am still working all this out and am rambling a lot here. Not half as eloquent as many posters. I don't know what or if I am asking anything but I had to get this out anyway. If you got this far, thank you.

There are a lot of elements in where someone sits politically - you could be socially conservative but more left wing economically, for example. Thats a perfectly valid position to hold. And there is also the authoritarian/liberal axis to consider.

You might find it interesting to have a look at sites like
www.politicalcompass.org/ where you can explore how you feel about individual policies and then see how your views align with different parties, instead of starting with the party and letting that shape what views you think are acceptable.

I think the sex and gender question has made a lot of people reassess the point and value of loyalty to a specific party.

Another similar one is www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com/index.php

I do this and the political compass test every year or 2, and it's interesting to see what fluctuates and what remains stable for me. And very interesting to see what fluctuates for the different parties.

Thank you. That's helpful

I've just had a look at a basic political compass quiz to see what it says about where we are at now, and the old left/right/libertarian/authoritarian takes no account of the current identity- driven touchy feely rainbow unicorn science denying ego stuff, or about feminist issues.

Example: it gives a statement for agreeing/disagreeing with about a woman with a career having a primary obligation as a homemaker. I slightly agree with that, and would agree just as strongly if the same question was asked about a man - the home is where we all live, we have a duty to ourselves. But there's a sex-roles (I'm avoiding ever using the g-word) bias in the quiz that just ignores so much of what goes on in the world.

IsaySteadyOn's question is a good one - the terms that defined a lot of political thinking a generation ago are starting to seem quaint.

I read about that and then got Twitter banned so missed any developments. Does anyone have any more information on it?

I did both of those links. I have done the political compass several times before and I always, including this time, come out as Left Libertarian. The second link tells me I am Idealistic.

I tried to be as honest as possible on the first one, but I found the questions very much showing a 'this is what a correct thinking person would choose' bias to them. And whether that's true or my interpretation through my lens I don't know.

As for political parties, I just had a look on the Lib Dem website. They appear to be much of a muchness to Labour on GC, don't they? Then I read this piece which covers it:
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=womansplaceuk.org/2019/11/14/not-so-liberal-not-so-democratic-the-liberal-democrats-and-women/&ved=2ahUKEwj41J6huZz8AhXHiFwKHf7_A-kQFnoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1wzDdHdpALx1606LXaoqdA" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here

Miserable posting fail there!

Anyway, bottom line, they don't appear to be an option.

the old left/right/libertarian/authoritarian takes no account of the current identity- driven touchy feely rainbow unicorn science denying ego stuff, or about feminist issues.

I agree - these things by their nature always tend to lag a bit, and (like the rest of the world) there's a definite male bias. But I think they are a useful starting point for looking at where you stand on individual issues in their own right rather than through a party lens. (Not as much as they used to be, unfortunately - the Political Compass site used to have a lot of analysis of your answers by topic, instead of just a single chart. And they've also got rid of thebexcellent chart where you could see the different parties bouncing about over time.)

LibDems are at least as bad as Labour. The Communist Party of Great Britain was surprisingly sensible last time I looked, but they are hardly mainstream.

I always come out as left libertarian on that thing which is 'interesting' on several counts - the movers and shakers in the Great Expulsion made much of how Right Wing we were, and I question a massive amount of the Libertarian position.

For me the invisibility/non-existence of women in the questions has become less tolerable as time goes by.

I've never come out above -6/-6 (or below -9/-9), so right wing definitely doesn't apply!

For me the invisibility/non-existence of women in the questions has become less tolerable as time goes by.

Likely to get worse on the who to vote for (rather than general position) tests, as the questions are based on the manifestos. But annoyance level can be a handy barometer, as well as a spur to action.

Which reminds me - I'd better get writing to the NI parties if I'm to get round all of them before the next Stormont election is called. Most of their websites are very vague on women's rights, so I need to pin them down.

What I did manage to gather about the Lib Dems (and echoing the SNP here) is the lecturing of women for their 'bigotry'. "Maybe our party isn't the right place for you with views like that. Would you like to be re-educated?"

Smug? Patronising? Insulting? I'd say, all of the above.

I'm in NI. I used to support Alliance and was actively involved with them. Sadly, they no longer know what a woman is and I just can't vote for a Party that doesn't put reality and safeguarding ahead of luxury beliefs.

Infuriating, isn't it? I already had a pretty short shortlist of parties I'd even consider voting for, and Alliance used to be one of the few.

Maybe shouldn't be surprised though - they were rather half hearted on abortion rights.

I tend to be economically and socially liberal but have some "small c" Conservative views around use of public space and personal responsibility.

I think the trans issue has caused a lot of people to question their set political views.

As a still, keep forgetting to cancel the direct debit, fully paid up member of the Labour Party, who can currently swivel on my finger if they think i'm voting for them in the next GE, I am getting rather tired of being labelled, amongst other things, a far right bigot.

But what I thought, as a woman capable of self reflection and willingness to learn, my views of late had pushed me politically.

Maybe I am now a far right bigot.

Who knows? Maybe I should do a test.

Yes! @BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn I was ignored when I bought up the issues by a counsellor I knew well and had even canvassed for. I am now politically homeless.

At the other end of Ireland I've been wondering what Sinn Fein's position is - until 10 or 15 years ago I wouldn't have considered them, but they've come a long way and are the only genuinely left wing option - it's time for them to learn a bit about how baancing a budget works in practice. But - women's rights? They used to be fairly terrible on women, but with two women leaders n and s I have to assume they've changed somewhat.

The most interesting thing was that the activist claimed to have received this from someone working at the Scottish parliament.

The phrasing rather suggests that feminist women are being put on a watchlist!

If even discussing the issues become a crime punished by silencing, nobody will ever learn why people worried about all this.

The trans lobby must be shifting a LOT of money for some people to make the crack downs so vicious.

Really interesting essay by Ceri Black. https://open.substack.com/pub/ceriblack/p/queer-praxis?r=l6otf&utmmedium=ios&utmm_campaign=post

As I understand it, they've gone full-on progressive in the North to appeal to young voters - which of course means aligning with self ID laws in the Republic. Women and children's safeguarding is boring, isn't it?