Women's rights general conversations - Thread 2

[Kucingsparkles]

Continuation of Thread 1

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

I suspect the article wasn't intended to be funny, but to me it was. Something about the writing style perhaps?

Will recalls what they said to her: “[This online community doesn’t] really care for you. If you’re sad, they’re not there to call [..] they’re not substantially your community. They don’t care for your wellbeing,

Yeah that's why me and another poster were pming each other in the middle of the night. She was having a issue at 3 in the morning and so I stayed up and pmd whilst she resolved it.

Then a few days later she repaid the favour and helped me the same way whilst i dealt with an issue.

We may just be funny names on a page, and have never met or know each others actual name. But we are there for each other. That shines through on these threads every single bloody day. We do actually care about each others well being as has been made very cheat to me over what has been an emotional few days on this site.

But yeah we don't care about each other at all. And using coercively bullying behaviour to bring your mother into line is not a good look.

How dare little gobshite

So, emotional blackmail rather than actual arguments then?

Clear not cheat ffs

Mum has just stopped talking to her kids and has decided to have her privacy inside.

Also known as "The Minecraft Stratagem"

I read that the other day. Quite unashamed coercion. I'm not sure what I would do in those circumstances - I wouldn't want to lose contact with my children, but their approach is abusive, and I would neither want to acquiesce, or, as a mother, condone my children using coercion and learning that they can use such techniques to successfully manipulate people.

I'm trying to think whether I would feel differently if the mother held what the children considered racist or homophobic views - and I am honestly not sure. I don't think I would have found it so troublesome previously, but seeing it play out here makes me question that.

I'm not convinced she has been "deradicalised", she's merely learned to keep her true thoughts and convictions from her radicalised children. The very fact that they think it's about hatred says so much. Juxtaposed with "radical" Star Wars fandom is almost hilarious. It's not being a fan of Star Wars that makes people racist misogynists, these men are racist misogynists who happen to be fans of Star Wars. N.b I'm not a big old Star Wars fan although I am very fond of the first three films because 1. They were part of my youth, 2. The wonderful Carrie Fisher, 3. Harrison Ford.

Hi Lawls, all went fine at ours. And yours?

Lovely thanks @SinnerBoy sorry to have taken so long replying! Been off my big computer for most of Christmas as MN hurts my eyes on the phone.

Another Northern Exposure fan here. Loved that show though it was never as good when Fleischman left. Course Chris in the Morning (John Corbett) graduated to be one of Carrie's boyfriends in Sex And The City. I think the TV series may have been partly based on Doc Hollywood where a doctor gets stranded on his way to Hollywood and has to work as a doctor in a small town then falls in love with the life. Michael J Fox starred. Also the film Local Hero has a similar theme. Big shot from the city falls in love with small town. These films/TV series appeal to me as it's sort of what I did moving from London to rural.

I'm trying to think whether I would feel differently if the mother held what the children considered racist or homophobic views

Both sets of our parents were/are homophobic, FiL also has arguably xenophobic and borderline racist views.

Regarding the homophobia, we simply said that we disagreed strongly with them and requested to please not talk about it particularly in front of the DC. They've respected that. And have always been perfectly lovely to our gay friends. Whether they still think homophobic thoughts inside their heads, is not under my control nor do I care to make "windows into men's souls."

Regarding Brexitatious FiL, he still comes out with his little xenophobic/racist "gems" which make us all cringe desperately. It's harder to entirely avoid conversational triggers though, because Brexit/international events/intersections with race or nationality permeate so much of current affairs that affect everybody and naturally come up as discussion points.

A friend of mine who holds different views on the trans issue to me basically equates opposition to TWAW with racism and homophobia. We have agreed not to talk about it.

As ever Glosswitch puts it brilliantly:

thecritic.co.uk/Bullying-your-mum-isnt-activism/

There's a real clarity and honesty about her writing, just puts it so well.

Yup. She's wonderful.

I think I'll stick to you guys on the FWR threads as the rest of MN is depressing as fuck atm (apart from the Generic MN DCs thread ) I might start a thread (not a TAAT but help on how to word responses) as I just pointed out on a thread that "feminazi" is an anti semitic slur as well as misogynistic and fuck me, the replies to me! The misogynistic aspect had been raised and dismissed repeatedly but I was surprised at the level of vitriol when I raised anti semitism - immediately in the responding posts to me I got...

Bore off
Have a coffee love
Scolding
Fucking painful
Rage inspired tangent
Absolute melt

Depressing as all hell. I believe they should stand as posts and not be deleted because Free Speech and people can see them for what they are, but it's 2022 for fucks sake! Its the responses to me pointing out the original anti semitic term that has depressed me more than the original word....

I may start a FWR thread later to get help on expressing how much this has fucked me off and how offensive it is?

Much sympathy. Entirely agree "feminazi" is unacceptable on several levels. Take care of yourself. Hugs @WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles

I just noticed #OurFlagMeansDeath was trending. Now I'm as GC as they come but I thought that was a bit much. Anyway, apparently it's a show about pirates. Not GII at all.

@WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles I'd never thought about that. I don't think you're wrong. Though probably most people deploying 'blank-nazi' are just trying to be generally offensive and indulging in a bit of hyperbole. I certainly don't believe you deserve abuse for pointing it out. The fact they get nasty and defensive speaks volumes.

Thank you folks. I think a lot of people don't realise that side of it as it's in such widespread usage these days (like Grammar Nazi!). The misogny is more apparent at first glance but then conflating feminism with a regime responsible for the Holocaust and millions of deaths is very offensive and so minimising. Of course I absolutely believe people can say whatever they like (free speech and all ) but I believe it should be challenged and it was actually the immediate speed and vitriol of the responses to my post that made me of course the women raising the misogyny had already been hysterical and having a hissy fit but I'm used to that!

Unfortunately I reported them to MNHQ not to get them deleted but maybe for MNHQ post on thread reminding people anti semitism etc won't be tolerated but they were deleted as "personal attacks". It's not just personal though, is it? It's all women and all Jews being attacked with comments like that.

Grrrr. Anyway I must go and do my work - I have procrastinating for two days, that's why I get let myself get dragged into crap like that! <cracks knuckles> I will start a specific thread at some point as I think it's good to explore it further, a quick search shows it was raised but a few years ago now.

I really love your username.

It's not just personal though, is it? It's all women and all Jews being attacked with comments like that.

Absolutely it is. But from what you've said (I haven't seen the thread in question) you were subjected to personal attacks for pointing this out. Which I entirely understand is very upsetting. It's dismissive. And it feels a bit like David Baddiel's thesis that Jews Don't Count! Well we do.

I really love your username.

Seconded! It's fantastic.

This kind of shit has happened to so many of us in our younger days, and it's still happening. The recurring theme of creepy men trampling all over female boundaries to get their sick jollies. Makes me rage that I'm going to have to teach my DDs how to deal with things like this. Women through the generations, having to teach our daughters how to minimise risk, instead of men learning not to be sick creeps.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4712326-creepy-man-on-bus-what-should-dd-have-done

Thank you @StephanieSuperpowers! I think that might be why I get/got so much aggressive shit replies, my views on feminism are apparent!

For full disclosure I myself am not a practising Jew (I am actually a committed aetheist) but one side of my family (except my grandfather), were all killed in the Holocaust so my Jewish cultural heritage makes me speak up against comments like that.

For full disclosure I myself am not a practising Jew (I am actually a committed aetheist) but one side of my family (except my grandfather), were all killed in the Holocaust so my Jewish cultural heritage makes me speak up against comments like that.

I'm sorry for your family's loss. Even if you had no Jewish cultural heritage it would still not be on to use that horrible word. But I get that it may well have been much more hurtful to you than someone who didn't have that in their family background. I'm not practising either but I was raised Orthodox. And you can't stop being Jewish. The founder of this site is married to a Jewish man.

God yes, it's not the kind of life lesson you want to give.

My daughter (17) has had an awful time in her latest hospitality job. Three weeks in and she would come home crying at having to manage the endless pushy perving from a couple of the staff. In usual fashion, she felt she couldn't say anything because they were all friends, she was the youngest, they'd say they were joking, she'd cause an atmosphere - all the same things we've all been through and thought, no doubt. I tried to be as supportive as possible whilst swearing a lot. Recently she came home, having not said much about it in the meantime, and she and her friend there - who'd experienced the same ongoing shit - had enough and reported it. One of the offenders is leaving and the other was sacked. So pleased and proud of her! So fucked off this has to be her valuable learning about the world of work experience!