Telegraph - Keir Starmer: Pro-trans laws are needed across UK

[ResisterRex]

At first glance, just (just!!) a rehash of his video from last year. Which said what it said. But there's this:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/12/23/keir-starmer-pro-trans-laws-needed-across-uk/

"Asked by The Telegraph about the leader’s comments to Pink News, Labour confirmed that he stood by plans to reform the GRA.

A party spokesman said: “All political parties agree that the process needs modernising. A future Labour government will consult on what that looks like, while upholding the Equality Act and maintaining single-sex spaces.
“Labour has a strong and proud record of standing up for women’s rights. Our commitment to them is unrelenting.”
Trans rights have become a key electoral battleground in the USS_ and are expected to be similarly important in the UK at the next general election."

Do all political parties agree the GRA needs updating? The Tories just made it easier to get a GRC, and they've not said they plan to do more.

Once again the "maintaining single sex spaces" rhetoric. But next to the Haldane judgement? Come on.

Sorry I got distracted and posted too quickly before. I meant to add that where I disagree with southbiscay and other posters is about 'winning solidly'. As I've already said, I think it's more precarious for Labour than that and I believe Starmer thinks so too. The idea does not make me happy but I think it's another explanation for his silence: that he's struggling to control his own party over the issue and he's suspects he might well end up leading a government where he'll have even less control.

I dunno Flo, if you are in opposition, mid term, with a healthy poll lead it makes sense to avoid getting drawn into ANY contentious policy debate. There's not much to be gained and quite a bit to be lost if you do. Labour's poll lead is mostly on the back of Tories ineptitude in the last year (3 leaders for a start).

Yup, I agree with you on that. I used to think I'd wait and see what Labour said about the GRA in their manifesto before I decided what to to with my vote. But now I expect the manifesto statement will be the vaguest, blandest word soup since records began, promising to 'modernise' 'respect' 'reform' and 'consult', and telling us precisely nothing.

We want to bring people onside. Whatever happens in the next couple of years there is a lot more sunlight on these issues. Every potential candidate, every political party, has these discussions.

Not only briefing papers from trans activists erasing the fact that women are oppressed on the basis of their sex. Real life stories from people impacted by the dark side of the rainbow glitter unicorn including trans widows and detransitioners.

We know that there will be no evidence of negative impact of this Bill in Scotland as the Government refuse to collect any accurate data. So we need to highlight any issues as we uncover them.

We’ve already heard heard the horrors from the whistleblowers at the Tavistock. What more is to come?

No debate is over for Labour and all of the other political parties.

#womenwontwheesht

💚🤍💜

I think Flo is right. People will vote for whichever party they believe is the most capable of running the economy. The Tories have a mountain to climb but they also have a former Goldman Sachs man who will attempt to keep his head down and start delivering.

If the Tories hold it together and Labour blow up....the victory is not as clear cut as it may seem. The 'what is a woman' question is an issue where Labour is both divided and at odds with mortgage man or whoever Labour is targeting. Many voters fear that urban/southern/young activists are the ones that set Labour party policies. This issue could expose the deep rifts.

What I don’t understand is how the BBC and organisations have been captured by this ideology? BBC Radio 4 had a whole discussion giving a platform to a man who denied that women were at risk anywhere but said that transwomen were risk in men’s prisons but no challenge at all.

Court battle looms with Westminster over self-ID

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fc5e8b94-82e5-11ed-be7b-e3d756e725f4?shareToken=852869daf6588b9ef9d2e18c38639007

"A UK government source said: “I understand the advocate-general for Scotland’s interim advice is that the Scottish government may have spilt into reserved matters, which makes a court case more likely.

“If it goes to the courts it will be a very complex decision. Any move seen to undermine the devolved settlement will be seized on by the SNP. But then again this bill opens up huge scope for divergence across the UK.”"

And:

"Conservatives believe public opinion will be firmly on their side, with polling for this newspaper and other organisations suggesting majority opposition to central aspects of the Holyrood bill."

How it may be detrimental to women:

"The act allows “positive action” measures to encourage and train people from under-represented groups to help them overcome disadvantages in competing with other applicants. A source said the bill could allow people born as male, who would not have been eligible for positive action measures and may have benefited from the advantages associated with their biological sex, to qualify for special treatment to further advance their career.

Alternatively, the source said, UK-wide employers could conclude that it is better not to run any positive action measures related to women, given the legal, policy and operational complexities these could present in future.

There is also concern that a biological female in a firm would have more difficulty advancing an equal pay claim if being compared with a higher paid trans woman who started identifying as a woman only recently, with most of their earnings history as a man."

Thanks for the share.

‘Alex Cole-Hamilton, the leader of the Scottish Lib Dems, said he always expected it could take some time for a law passed by Holyrood to become enacted.

He said: “A few more months after years of hardship for people denied justice for decades is not too long to wait.”’

Seriously. Years of hardship? Denied justice to have a falsified birth certificate? I wish people could find peace with themselves and live as they wished without lying to themselves or forcing other people to lie.

I thought it was the government's job to govern, and not play silly childish games, but perhaps I am wrong.

Not possible because the necessary powers to include that are not devolved to the Scottish parliament, that is the whole point.

Most rape victims are raped by a partner, ex partner or other family member. In fact you and I are about10 times more likely to be raped by someone we know than someone we don't know.

I fail to see how Self ID allows most rapists easier access to potential victims, given the most likely potential victim is already a member of their family.

Ensuring the law is complied with, and devolved powers don't act ultra vires might well signal one party playing silly games. Clue: it's not the UK government

The SNP are very clear in their objective of gaining independence for Scotland, the clue is in their name. They may well be using this particular issue to further that cause, it beats me why the UK government would be considering helping them with that, but then the current UK government has been consistently promoting Scottish indpendence through its corruption and ineptness for several years.

They may well be using this particular issue to further that cause

So women and children are just collateral damage (to the Greens, SNP, and Labour) and the fact the SNP seem to be acting outside their powers, should be ignored? No, no, and no.

And already there are some signs the SNP might be hitting the buffers:

Stalling SNP support hits hopes for de facto referendum

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cc155d6e-82d6-11ed-be7b-e3d756e725f4?shareToken=7fbdd95ee55286ae2e25d15763e1376c

They may well be using this particular issue to further that cause, it beats me why the UK government would be considering helping them with that

Given that the majority of Scots don't support this bill, you may well have that arse about face.

What is certain is that for the Tories anyone who is poorer than them and their rich mates is just collateral damage in their bid to gain power and money. One only has to look at their record of the past 12 years to know that. See for example voting against help with fuel bills last January...
Why so many of you are fans of and trust a government that partied the night before Prince Philips funeral, is beyond me.

Why so many posters work so hard, to admonish women and shame us into believing Labour and the Left care about us, is beyond me.

We are all very capable of critical thinking, comparing and contrasting reports and their sources, and wading through evidence, TYVM.

We aren't a wall of Tory either. Most of us all left leaning and now politically homeless. And trying to shame the women here who do vote Tory (statistically there will be those women here!) is hardly likely to get them to change. Presenting us with evidence and reasons might.

But we never get that. We just get "Evil Tories" and "SHAME!!" It is insulting and it never works.

I agree with you Rex but it just makes me glad this board exists. The rest of mn is more of the same but you get more intelligent posts generally here

It is insulting and it never works

agreed

Using your figures, you appear to be saying that about 10% of rapes are carried out by strangers or acquaintances. 10% seems quite low, but even so, that is a significant number.

Surely you can see that allowing these men to self-id as transwomen,
giving them easier access to victims, is likely to increase the number of assaults. Is that really so difficult for you to understand?

Most rape victims are raped by a partner, ex partner or other family member.

I just did a quick check to see if this was accurate, and it seems you just made this up. From the ONS:

For the majority of female victims of rape or assault by penetration (including attempts), the offender was a partner or ex-partner (45%) or someone who was known to them other than as a partner or family member (38%). One-seventh of female victims reported the offender as a stranger (13%, Figure 10).

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/sexualoffencesinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017#how-are-victims-and-perpetrators-related

So in fact over 50% are not partners or family members. Any of these strangers or acquaintances could use self-id to gain easier access to victims.

Even one woman harmed by self-ID policies is one too many.

Every single additional GRC issued makes life more dangerous for women by continuing the lie that male people are female and increasing the number of mixed sex areas where women are vulnerable.

The woman raped on a UK hospital ward and told it didn’t happen because there were no ‘men’ there?
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744.amp

No sex offender should be allowed a GRC under any circumstances. Do you think we should make it easier for rapists and other sex offenders like the SNP and the Greens?

That makes no sense - yes they couldn't ban sex offenders from applying for a GRC but they could restrict the people that the self ID option was available to.

Besides I just don't fucking care they (SNP Labour LibDems & the loony Greens) CHOSE to enact legislation that makes it easier for predators to access vulnerable women & girls. They could have chosen to protect women & girls but they decided the special feelings of some people were more important.

Using the statistics you found 45% of rapes are carried out by a partner or ex partner and 38% by someone who was known to them in some other way. Only 13% are strangers. If the missing 4% are other family members then the figures are very similar to those that I was looking at from another study and nothing like the way you interpret them.

Oh well then it doesn't matter