Statement about the emergency evidence session by the EHRCJ Committee

[ArabellaScott]

14 women's rights organisations have written to protest at bias in the Scottish Government's GRR Bill - I'm guessing it's okay to reproduce large parts of this statement, as it's public:

'Women – in particular those with concerns about the potential impact of this bill on women who have experienced male violence – have been treated with contempt throughout this process, first by the Scottish Government, and now by the majority of the Scottish parliamentary committee. Their concerns have been belittled, misrepresented and dismissed.'

...

'The following questions should all be asked of Mr Madrigal-Borloz:

Is it your view that women and girls around the world are singled out for discrimination and disadvantage, such as female infanticide, education denial, forced marriage, restrictions on their liberties and rights, and multiple other legal, social and economic disadvantages, on the basis of something other than their physical sex?

Which countries that have introduced self-declaration systems for legal gender recognition have undertaken evaluations of the impacts on women and girls? Please provide MSPs with details of any such reports, the scope of the evaluation undertaken, date published etc.

How is the monitoring of effects of such laws on women and girls possible where datasets have ceased collecting data on sex, in favour of collecting data on self declared gender identity?

How do you define harms against women and girls? Is it your view that harms should be confined to physical and sexual assaults?

What analysis have you undertaken to assess the degree of reluctance women and girls experience in reporting any incidents? For example, concerns about accusations of committing a hate crime.

What importance do you place on ensuring women and girls’ privacy, dignity and psychological safety?

You claim that women objecting to this law change believe that all transwomen are predators. Please can you provide specific examples of organisations that have made such statements in Scotland.

How would you expect evidence to be found about the change in the incidence of non-contact sexual offences committed by males in women-only spaces, such as voyeurism, after changes in the law and policy?

In countries that have introduced self-declaration systems for legal gender recognition, what measures have been put in place to quantify the numbers of women and girls self-excluding from women-only spaces and services that are now open to transwomen?

Is it your view that safety and fairness matter for women and girls in sport?'

This statement is signed by:

Evidence-Based Social Work Alliance
Fair Play For Women
For Women Scotland
Frontline Feminists Scotland
Keep Prisons Single Sex
MurrayBlackburnMackenzie
Scottish Feminist Network
Sex Matters
Women and Girls Scotland
Women’s Rights Network
Women Voting With Our Feet
Woman’s Place UK
Women Speak Scotland
FiLiA
Johann Lamont (former MSP)
Elaine Smith (former MSP)
Jenny Marra (former MSP)
Marlyn Glen (former MSP)

forwomen.scot/18/12/2022/emergency-evidence-session-by-ehrcj-committee/

RA talks about VMB on data - says he said v clearly and she agrees - data doesn't exist on LGBTQI persons - doesn't mean it doesn't exist - state has to collect data deliberately and consciously - data isn't consolidated is not a reflection taht we don't have a problem, it's a reflection that nobody is looking for it. Woemn's orgs have been telling us for many years now

PDC - Should Scotgov give guidance to public bodies?

RA - I think it would be hlepful but this is not enough. It's a bandage solution to wider and more systematic flaws with the legislation as it stands

There will not be a magical solution to these issues by non binding guidance

Women expect this, lawyers expect this and reasonably expect this.

It comes back to perhaps going down again and looking comprehensively at what needs to be adjusted.

PDC - other helpful amendments?

RA - lower age for children - that is a whole are needs to be looked at v carefully.

EA single sex spaces - legitimate/proportionate/reasonable - how this interacts

Resolving the whole issue about whether sex definition is biological or legal. Recent decision suggests legal - what does westminster say - will there be a challenge?

Talking about Lady Haldane's decision that males with a GRC are legally female - claims that there is no impact on the EA is challenged by this decision.

Honestly, it's like reading all the issues brought up on this page in real time, in front of that bunch of navel gazing, blinkered fools, in a place where they can't just scream and point 'BIGOT!!!!'.

Ah, I wish I was there.

Rachael Hamilton raises Cass report but line drops/tech issues.

Noooo they've lost Rachel! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Karen Adams. Says RA used to support self ID. Asks what has changed RA's mind.

RA says she has spent half of her mandate, 1.5 years - still holds views that [self ID] can be done, but UN defers the decision to individual states.

RA not against it in principle, in last 1/5 yrs has become more aware of 'unhinged self ID' issues.

Not sure if she meant to use that word again.

RA - I wish I knew then what I know now.

Talking about Yogyakarta - clear it's dangerous [to accept as international policy].

Issues that weren't initially on her radar - we are contacted by women orgs from all over the world - this shapes my understanding

the state has to collect data accurately-yes!

Reem exemplifies someone with an approach to an open learning approach, willing to accept information that is presented to her to adapt her thinking.

Most of the Scottish Government seem to think this an alien concept!

Karen Adams still asking about examples or evidence of why change in opinion about self ID. Any examples?

RA - it is established principle in HR law that peopel have a right to legal recognition of their identity. What I see missing now that I didn't understand bak then is the lack of safeguards.

If there's unhinged, unregulated self ID, it can impact on rights of women.

RA - understand Spain also going thru similar process, similar concerns from women, also Germany, and other coutnries.

This is a reflection of wider concern we see in other countries.

When she says "unhinged" does she mean unlinked to other legislation - stand alone legislation? She can't mean "unhinged" in the sense of barking mad....

Rachel asking again about Cass/youth:

RA - it is my intention to dig my teeth into this - has been approached by children who transitioned and now regret

I intend to look at this more closely - YES!

COME AND SPEAK TO MUMSNET!!!!

I presume so, she's used that term at least 3 times

Rachel Hamilton - you said views of women/women's orgs hasn't been adequately heard or represented. Self exclusion etc.

RA - I feel that speed or the need to pass somethign seems to be more important than quality and outcome. [ouch]

amazing how the sound goes when the Cass report is bought up.....almost as if someone wants it not talked about

Karen Adams - hav eyou seen evidence

RA - I'be seen evidence, testimonies by victims, not collated, this is how I work, I'm approached by victims, victims organisations

What counts as evidence is also their lived experience ... we sometimes discount that ...

RA - Not a 'culture war', it's a human rights issue. A need to have your needs heard and concerns heard. Sometimes I've not seen studies or research precisely because of access barriers but that is very real .. you then sometimes realise that was the tip of the iceberg.

Her methodology as a rapporteur is listening, she finds sometimes people have been raising concerns, but nobody is listening because of political agenda, criminalisation, etc.

Emma Rodick - saying self ID is currently used. 'Do you acknowledge there isn't currently one single view of survivors'

Again, with grilling an international expert, it's fucking embarrassing, Emma, she's not at a job interview. Please stop making Scotland look like arseholes.

RA - the issue is making access to a GRC easier it's reasonable to expect you will get more GRC holders, that is going to create bigger challenges, whether on health servies, also on spaces that cater to women, also on spaces that should remain single sex.

@ArabellaScott thank you so much for typing this out! It's absolutely riveting!

RA - any policy or law that grants extra rights to a group, we take it for granted, we have to regulate that - we know that if its easier you will get more people applying for it, and you have to manage that increase - there are so many things we go through that nobody questions safeguards or regulations - talking about refugees, a processs to assess credibility and criteria ... talking about vetting for change of citizenships - safeguards - why should [gender] be an exception?