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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

No Evidence to suggest abuse of self ID

178 replies

Signalbox · 18/12/2022 11:46

This is an interesting thread on Twitter by journalist Róisín Michael on Twitter.

How can governments and organisations continue to get away with saying "there is no evidence" that allowing males to self ID into women's spaces will result in increased predatory behaviour within those spaces when the data is not even being collected.

We already know this happens in the UK in relation to Males in the female prison estate and convictions of male sex offenders being recorded as being carried out by women.

I hadn't quite realised the extent of the problem though and how deep this actually goes. It's horrifying...

@ RóisínMichaux

Belgium has had self ID for almost 5 years. Not a single report of a trans woman crime? Not a single one. No stories of men attacking women in prisons? Not one.

I asked the police why. “We don’t communicate that”.

I asked the press ombudsman: “Why is there not one single report about any crime sexual or otherwise in the Belgian press of either of the country’s languages involving a trans woman since January 2018.”

He said he doesn’t know

I contact lots of journalist. No réponse. I follow up. No answer. Is there a rule, spoken or otherwise? Silence. Try to yourself: search the archives of Belgian papers in Dutch or French for the term “transwoman”

It’s all trans sob stories about living their truth.

Weird no? So I try to find out if sex crimes committed by women have gone up. But the stats are hard to parse, especially when COVID arrives. The police record everything about a crimes except sex. I ask the police repeatedly: when did you stop recording sex and why? Silence

Are there trans women in prison? We don’t record that, fellow Belgian terfs were told. But I got to know some researchers who told me yea, plenty of men in with the women. In fact, there will be more of that soon

The council of Europe apparently has decided that to separate women and men is not a familiar enough environment for reinsertion in the real world (i haven’t confirmed this). So eventually all prisons should be as mixed as possible

So Belgium being the progressive little stalwart it is has gone ahead and carried out 3 separate mixed prison experiments (ongoing, results out 2023). My main takeaway (though I’m a terf so I’m biased):

The top-tier alpha men get women, and pair off. The men who don’t pair off? They get upset and angry and tense. And the prison guards have to deal with the fallout. Prison incels. They are creating prison incels.

The people carrying out this research are young queer theory idealists. One of the prison projects roughly translates as de-gendering prisons (in French). I asked one of them: aren’t the women afraid? She said they would never let anything happen to each other.

One researcher told me that there was a case of a trans “woman” that she was aware of who had a psychotic break and attacked a female prisoner. “But that person was mentally unwell” she told me. Oh ok then!

I contacted social workers from inside prisons “I have a lot to say about that but I can’t” was one response. “I’m burnt out, I need a break” was another. I even contacted journalists who made names for themselves uncovering stories that powerful people wanted hidden. Nope.

So is the fact that there have been no stories (as far as I can tell - and I have searched on and off for months) about transwomen committing sexual crimes evidence that transwomen are not doing so? There is no reason to think this is true.

More likely: as many have pointed out, small chill countries (more dependent on institutions like the EU) like Malta, Ireland and Belgium are the laboratories where this bullshit was tested out on an unsuspecting populace.

The most shameful of all, I believe, Is an organisation I thought would be the last place we could put some hope:

@ investigate_eu : how did this all happen so fast? Where is the pressure coming from? Why the silence?

Investigate Europe didn’t even answer my email.

What a time to be alive: massive changes being stealthily made by shady American donors to our very understanding of reality itself. The investigators? The truth-seekers? Absent. Afraid. Cowed.

But then you look at their donor list: it’s the same people who fund @ ILGAEurope and @ TGEUorg and the lobbies that push this sexist regressive men’s rights movement on us.

We’re all alone. It’s up to us. Start searching, asking questions. They have fucking abandoned us.

OP posts:
PomegranateOfPersephone · 18/12/2022 14:19

This is really horrific. I feel I am sinking into despair. So what? The future is that women must know our place, seek the protection of our male relatives, avoid leisure centres, all medical treatment, public life and definitely keep meek and mild and hidden away making very careful choices that cannot in any way be misconstrued as criminal so as to avoid a prison conviction at all costs.

This sounds like a dystopian nightmare.

When in British history was life for women ever as bad as what it will potentially become thanks to the disappearing of sex as a significant and protected category. Even in centuries past we had separate prisons and hospital wards.

334bu · 18/12/2022 14:20

And yes sex must be continue to be recorded, otherwise what we've been saying will happen will happen and the women's statistics will become meaningless and all the policies that rely on those figures will fall apart.

Absolutely but only if sex recorded is actual sex and not just legal sex, because up here in Scotland, after the GRR any man can be a woman.

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2022 15:13

PomegranateOfPersephone · 18/12/2022 14:19

This is really horrific. I feel I am sinking into despair. So what? The future is that women must know our place, seek the protection of our male relatives, avoid leisure centres, all medical treatment, public life and definitely keep meek and mild and hidden away making very careful choices that cannot in any way be misconstrued as criminal so as to avoid a prison conviction at all costs.

This sounds like a dystopian nightmare.

When in British history was life for women ever as bad as what it will potentially become thanks to the disappearing of sex as a significant and protected category. Even in centuries past we had separate prisons and hospital wards.

don't forget our duty to cheerlead for men's rights to share their fetishes everywhere without any kink shaming.

bignosebignose · 18/12/2022 15:16

The absolute state of this reporting from Australia.

“Read woman's twisted messages to nine-year-old girl after she was caught trying to have sex with the child”

twitter.com/marycechan/status/1604377265873518592?s=61&t=hyXdZELl08GFMPq5jrfzZw

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/12/2022 16:00

FFS, bignose.

Signalbox · 18/12/2022 16:07

bignosebignose · 18/12/2022 15:16

The absolute state of this reporting from Australia.

“Read woman's twisted messages to nine-year-old girl after she was caught trying to have sex with the child”

twitter.com/marycechan/status/1604377265873518592?s=61&t=hyXdZELl08GFMPq5jrfzZw

Has the word "rape" gone out of fashion?

OP posts:
TofuonToast · 18/12/2022 16:10

PomegranateOfPersephone · 18/12/2022 14:19

This is really horrific. I feel I am sinking into despair. So what? The future is that women must know our place, seek the protection of our male relatives, avoid leisure centres, all medical treatment, public life and definitely keep meek and mild and hidden away making very careful choices that cannot in any way be misconstrued as criminal so as to avoid a prison conviction at all costs.

This sounds like a dystopian nightmare.

When in British history was life for women ever as bad as what it will potentially become thanks to the disappearing of sex as a significant and protected category. Even in centuries past we had separate prisons and hospital wards.

No. That’s not what we’re going to do. We rally behind Jkr, Kathleen Stock, MF, Allison Bailey and other warriors and fight this fuckfest.

waterwitch · 18/12/2022 17:18

Tofuontoast
💐 absolutely

waterwitch · 18/12/2022 18:45

Boiled I think we’d have a lot in common! ☕️🍰

Kucingsparkles · 19/12/2022 07:36

bignosebignose · 18/12/2022 15:16

The absolute state of this reporting from Australia.

“Read woman's twisted messages to nine-year-old girl after she was caught trying to have sex with the child”

twitter.com/marycechan/status/1604377265873518592?s=61&t=hyXdZELl08GFMPq5jrfzZw

Words fail me.

Signalbox · 19/12/2022 07:59

Here we go again. From Kezia Dugdale SMP. I wonder if they ever ask how the data on TW are collected (if at all). I suspect not…

The primary purpose of this bill is to demedicalise the process of securing a gender recognition certificate. There are 13 countries that already use self-identification; Scotland will soon be the 14th. The populations of these countries total 350 million people. That is one hell of a data set from which to find a pattern of the law being abused by predatory men. Yet as Victor Madrigal-Borloz said on Friday: “There are no administrative or judicial findings that validate the idea that the risk of abuse is a material one.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kezia-dugdale-classic-populism-inflamed-the-gender-debate-87j79fdjh

archive.ph/NiVFx

OP posts:
bignosebignose · 19/12/2022 08:19

It’s hard to understand how people like her apparently never take a minute to ask themselves the obvious question: why would predatory men not take advantage of laws that make it easier for them to abuse?

Shelefttheweb · 19/12/2022 08:55

Capturing crimes is important, but so is women’s privacy and dignity

duc748 · 19/12/2022 12:00

That whole, 13 countries thing, though, isn't that very much part of the SNP's shtick? They like to present Scotland as a modern, enlightened country like Scandinavia or NZ, compared to old-fashioned Ruritanian England. Like teenagers wanting to hang out with the cool kids. Trouble is, the cool kids are fucking women over.

DadJoke · 19/12/2022 13:12

Self ID makes absolutely no difference under the EA2010 to provisions which allow transgender people to be excluded from single sex spaces.

From the EA2010 notes:

Exception allowing single sex services to discriminate because of gender re-assignment.

The third exception (Schedule 3, paragraph 28) allows providers of separate or single-sex services to provide a different service to, or to exclude, someone who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. This includes those who have a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC), as well as someone who does not have a GRC but otherwise meets the definition under the Equality Act 2010.

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmwomeq/1470/147010.htm

The paragraph itself:

Gender reassignment

28(1)A person does not contravene section 29, so far as relating to gender reassignment discrimination, only because of anything done in relation to a matter within sub-paragraph (2) if the conduct in question is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

(2)The matters are—

(a)the provision of separate services for persons of each sex;

(b)the provision of separate services differently for persons of each sex;

(c)the provision of a service only to persons of one sex.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

So, you might disagree that transgender women should be permitted in women-only spaces (and they can be excluded under 3:28) but that has nothing to do with GRCs, or how easy they are to obtain.

Thelnebriati · 19/12/2022 13:47

Why are you pretending anyone needs a GRC to try to enter a women only space? You know the people who run the service can't ask to see it, they have to rely on other ID.

Places like women only DV shelters have funding that is so precarious they can't afford the risk of being sued, even if they know they will win. Your lack of empathy for women who need life saving single sex services is astounding.

TheBiologyStupid · 19/12/2022 15:55

And yet, DadJoke, service and facility providers are unable or unwilling to exercise the EqA exemptions for fear of threats to their funding or worse. Some are even unwilling to exclude a man with no GRC from leading a rape crisis centre. And we all saw the TRA reaction last week to JKR setting up a service exclusively for women using those exemptions.

Blenheimprincess · 19/12/2022 15:56

There is a massive thread with evidence on it called "but this never happens"
I'll see if I can find it

WarriorN · 19/12/2022 16:00

When you know how much the news around particular individual in Ireland has been suppressed and then also Dana Rivers, you realise there must be many many stories that aren't being told.

WarriorN · 19/12/2022 16:01

Link

Trigger warning: contains disturbing information Dana Rivers Is the Story the Media Doesn't Want You to Read http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4699982-dana-rivers-is-the-story-the-media-doesnt-want-you-to-read

WarriorN · 19/12/2022 16:02

I don't even think this individual did self Id. So if that's water tight "diagnosis" wtf will self Id bring?

DadJoke · 19/12/2022 17:40

TheBiologyStupid · 19/12/2022 15:55

And yet, DadJoke, service and facility providers are unable or unwilling to exercise the EqA exemptions for fear of threats to their funding or worse. Some are even unwilling to exclude a man with no GRC from leading a rape crisis centre. And we all saw the TRA reaction last week to JKR setting up a service exclusively for women using those exemptions.

Unwilling. And it's up to them. You can't make them exclude trans woman by suing them. They are excluding men, but not trans women, because they want to. It's not compulsory them to provide trasn exclusionary spaces.

Rowling's trans exclusionary support centre is almost certainly legal.

TheBiologyStupid · 19/12/2022 18:23

Yes, DadJoke, but I can't help noticing that you ignored my mention of "unable" and "for fear of threats to their funding or worse".

Whatsnewpussyhat · 19/12/2022 18:43

They are excluding men, but not trans women

What is the difference between a man and a transwomen DadJoke?