Sexual choking is now so common that many young people don’t think it even requires consent. That’s a problem

[IwantToRetire]

" ... It made me sad to think about the amount of girls who would have just “gone along with it” in that moment – including myself a few years ago. I would have known myself well enough to know that being choked wasn’t something that sexually turned me on, however I don’t know if I would have been able to distinguish between enjoying a sexual encounter because the man I was with was enjoying it, or because I truly enjoyed it myself.

I worry about how many women are yet to make this distinction, and implore you to consider where the true source of your consent lies, because if it is with the desire to satisfy men who want to strangle you, it may be wrongly placed. ... "

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem

Not saying this is the best article ever about this increasing violence inspired by pornograpy, and suspect the Guardian only published it because the writer is one of the BBC's 100 women.

But on the other hand this cant be said to often enough, and if it reaches one young woman, or in fact any woman, then that's good.

The worst bit is that it doesn't matter if you didn't consent to it. If it "goes wrong" he can claim that it was consensual but went wrong, and you're too dead to testify that you didn't consent.

A change in the law is needed quickly, to introduce a presumption that consent to choke wasn't given unless it can be proven otherwise (in writing for example). I know that "innocent until proven guilty" is an important legal principle in our society, but I don't think that a specific exception such as this would undermine that - it still has to be proved that it was he who did the choking.

I suppose legally there are several factors. Consent is relevant to the sexual element, but is it to the issue of causing injury or death by obviously reckless actions? If we think about death by wilfully dangerous driving, is the sentencing lower if the person killed got into the car willingly, knowing the driver might be under the influence or likely to drive excessively fast, versus killing a stranger? I don't know the answer to that but I don't see why it would be. This seems analogous.
Everyone knows drunk driving or driving excessively fast is reckless and liable to cause injury or death. There have been enough, too many, of these 'accidental' strangulations for anyone to claim ignorance of the dangers. If lack of consent can be proved that should be an aggravating factor or an additional sentence.

The only guy who i encountered online who was keen on this (we never met thank goodness) was early 30s, though I had a couple of others mention it briefly, all under 40. They all said it's driven entirely by the women's desire. Odd then that he was so insistent that I should try it.

To me it's uniquely dangerous among sexual practices and unevenly so for women, given that men have bigger and stronger hands and women have smaller necks with less space for the carotids and smaller larynxes. The fact that this has broken out of extreme kink further into the mainstream shows that the patriarchy is alive and well.

I was under the impression the law had changed.

I thought consent was irrelevant in strangulation cases where there is any evidence of harm - bruising, hoarse voice afterwards

I dated a guy quite a while back now (circa a decade) who was 39 at the time, who was into this and slapping. And he did it without asking. I hated it but despite thinking I’m quite an assertive person, I just sort of recoiled inwards and zoned out on what was happening, instead of telling him to fuck off. And to my horror now, I allowed it to continue for about a year. Never again though. He’d be almost 50 now, a self-declared « feminist ». Wankstain, more like.

Strangulation should be illegal.

I know that won't stop it happening but it would weigh the law towards the strangled person.

I used to teach teenagers, and whilst sex education wasn't part of my remit I had a couple of students bring up bondage and one started explaining to me about not having control being the turn on etc.

I told them about the need for safe words / signs and scape plans but also that I thought at 17 they should still be finding 'vanilla' fun.

Fortunately they didn't report me, I would have been out of a job, but I thought it was more important that they were not just getting sex education from porn.

It’s a very dangerous practice. It used to be rather more common - am I allowed to say this- amongst men as an auto erotic practice.

Loyd Russell Moyle, Brighton MP, seems to think there is a "safe" way to practice self strangulation:

"Where I disagree, I am afraid, is on some of the hon. Member’s examples. I did not plan to say this, but during the pandemic, my second cousina 15-year-old boydied in a tragic accident of auto-asphyxiation. It devastated the family, as can be imagined, and happened in the pandemic when we were only allowed six people at the funeral. If he had been taught about risky sex actshe was 15, not a pre-pubescent childand how to make sure he did things safely, rather than just learning something from the internet that then led to the end of his life, he might still be around and his family might not be devastated. So, actually, because of that personal experience I do have a problem with saying that we should not teach any of this to our children."

I'd only say again that there is no safe way to strangle someone or to practice self strangulation. It is imo a terrible idea to try and teach children and young people 'safe kink' though I could get behind strong boundaries on any promotion of pain, suffering or powerlessness as sexual experiences. But perhaps that would upset the kinksters.

How is it that we've got to a place where an MP can reasonably suggest BDSM be taught in schools? It's mind-blowing.

Sexually incontinent men see sex as an overwhelming right and create a climate where promoting boundaries and the importance of informed consent is seen as "problematic". They characterise those pushing safety and safeguarding as prudes and pearl clutchers with kink shaming being a "sin".
Regrettably there are too many men like this in politics and other positions of power.

Is a kink still kinky enough to satisfy those who get a thrill from taboo-breaking if it's normalised (let alone taught in schools)? Aren't they likely to 'need' to push the boundaries further to get their kicks?

xkcd.com/468/

This is terrifying. No wonder so many girls and young women are noping out of being “women”. If I thought that’s what would happen during sex - or that I’d be slapped or spat on I’d nope the fuck out too.

I remember after my mum telling me about the facts of life, she said that sex should be fun. I was horrified at the time, but I wish all young people (and older people) would know that sex is meant to be fun for everyone involved. If they are not enthusiastically consenting you’re not doing it right and you need to stop immediately.

From an earlier post (by me!) "non fatal strangulation" was recognised as an act of domestic violence. www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/non-fatal-strangulation-or-non-fatal-suffocation

But the problem is many people, and especially young men, have been influenced by porn(*) and it is their sex "education". And so many young women accept that this is what should happen and quite likely think they dont like sex but go along with it as it is "required" of them.

How many young couples would think we are in a relationship that is characterised as being domestic violence.

This makes you realise how superficial the gains have been society wide, in terms of women refusing to accept male violence and coercion.

(*) Does anyone remember the two women singers who made video that caused a lot of upset because of that they were depicting. Later on when one of them wrote about it she said in a straightforward way that she was influenced by the porn she saw all around her at home when growing up.

Out of the 7 one night stands I have had with men, 5 of them went to choke me. Why the fuck do they think it’s a good idea?

(I’m 23 for context)

I can’t imagine anyone liking strangulation, either m or f, but then again, even though i have varied appetites and am most definately not vanilla, i was a bit shocked when a girl i was being intimate with asked me to hit her.

Im 6’2”, built and if i’d hit her, i could have killed her with a single blow… As is it, im a child of a DV marriage, and can’t abide men hitting women….

We never got intimate again.

Maybe there are women out there that enjoy it, but i do have to question the character of the guys that enjoy it.

More than one in five (22 per cent) boys are looking for information about sex through pornography, a new report has found.

According to SafeLives, a UK charity working to put an end to domestic abuse, relationships and sex education (RSE) is “falling seriously short” of what young people need despite the curriculum receiving its first update in 20 years in 2019.

Meanwhile, other shortages came by way of abusive relationships, with just 46 per cent of students saying they feel confident about who to talk to if they know someone who is experiencing abuse.

Additionally, only 24 per cent of those surveyed recall being taught about coercive control in RSE.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/porn-boys-sex-violence-against-women-b2243665.html

I have no idea how to keep my early 20s sons from landing up hurting some woman.

OI talking to them about this, but who knows what they get up to or what porn they watch. I am just hoping that talking is enough.

Have you heard of Gail Dines she has been an active feminist for some time. Originally from the UK but now in the US.

She set up an organisation called Culture Reframed specifically to help parents talk to children about porn.

In case you want to have a look the link is www.culturereframed.org/

NO ONE is killed by 'sex gone wrong". The very idea this is possible is abhorrent. Death by strangulation requires an enormous amount of strength and takes several minutes. The victim would struggle, turn blue, possibly void their bowels - no one could reasonably think it was an accident. What porn does is reinforce the collective belief that 'rough sex' is not only desirable but that lust can easily tip over into violence, unconsciously. This is sexism writ large - men are always victims, women are always to blame.

This is so sad.

I do enjoy this (amongst other kinks) but when I first explored this 15 years ago I had to meet people on a specialist fetish website. Now you can definitely find people on normal dating websites/apps. I've never met anyone who has tried this where it hasn't been explicitly discussed before they have done it. Not sure if that's just luck (I enjoy this, but I definitely would not enjoy it without consent!) When I do want to do this, I'm very explicit about my parameters (it is dangerous, but there are degrees).

I don't think most people know you can't actually consent to anything beyond common assault (consent is not a defence to ABH or GBH, so anything more than 'transient and trifling', unless for sport or medical treatment) so I don't think there should be any "consensual sex" defence to strangulation. It takes more than slight pressure on the neck for a short period. Anyone claiming they didn't realise the person was physically in distress is lying.

P.S. I've never watched porn so that's not the cause of my interest

Years ago I remember sleeping with someone from my university course. Out of nowhere, he slapped me during the middle of it. :/ Without saying a word. However back then I didn't have enough self esteem to challenge it.

And how many young girls will go along with it because they don't want to 'boring' or 'vanilla'? Or they want to please the guy they fancy?

Glad to be a dull married when I read this and no intention of robbing the cradle with these porn addled youngsters.

Bring back the days of a dodgy VHS in a paper bag.

Same, I'm glad to have all the faults of being "old' and "nearly extinct" with my anti-porn, sex-work-is-exploitation, kinks-are-private, humans-are-sexually-dimorphic and sexual intercourse is naturally enjoyable without violence/strangulation/beating/gimp suits/dog outfits.

I wouldn't want to be a young person in this toxically "everything goes or you're a frigid bigot" environment.

I was really shocked to see photos of a student Halloween event at my daughter's university, and one girl (not a friend of my daughter, just a random person) had the imprint of a livid bruise from hand/fingers on her neck in makeup and was proudly showing it off for photos. I don't know the background to choosing such a "costume", but the image horrified me. I immediately thought of sexual choking.