Advice please: boss keeps ranting about “TERFS”

[WeeBisom]

I’m currently doing freelance work for a woman who is high up in a very woke industry, shall we say (like publishing). It’s a big project and I expect to be working with her for some time. Things have been good, except lately she has started trying to engage me in conversation about trans stuff. Her and her company are completely on board with everything trans (they are stonewall trained).

The problem is she keeps ranting at me about “terfs” and “transphobes”. I’ve listened to her rant about Julie bindel, KJK, and dozens of other women. This makes me feel uncomfortable because I’m gender critical and I get the very strong impression that if she found this out for sure she would fire me.

Recently she’s started asking me questions and the aim is to find out where I stand on these things. When she rants I just go completely silent and change the subject , but it’s harder when she asks me something directly.

For instance, she said the other day she felt really sorry for a trans celebrity (ironically she called him “he” even though they are a trans woman). She turned to me and said “what do you think about him?” I have extremely strong opinions about this individual, none of which she would want to hear ! So I just kept quiet and said “hmm I don’t really know”.

I think she’s beginning to notice that I shut down around these conversations and get extremely awkward. I obviously don’t mind that she’s a TRA - that’s her business. But I don’t think I should be drawn into these kinds of conversations, especially when a) it’s not relevant to the work we are doing and b) our relationship will significantly sour if I come out as one of those dreaded “terfs”.

Any advice on what I should do? I’m considering just saying to her “you know I don’t know very much about this topic at all, I try to keep out of it” next time she brings it up.

Aren't you too busy to be having these long conversations?

Is it too late to just say what's a 'turf'? I didn't know what a 'terf' was until about 4 years ago. Hard to put an exact timeframe on it.

I would be so tempted to say, 'oh, I completely agree with maya forstater. She was a contractor too, you know, she believed human beings could not change sex and that sex matters. She was fired for believing that and talking about it, but she won her tribunal.

So, anyway, back to what we were discussing...... '

“Any advice on what I should do? I’m considering just saying to her “you know I don’t know very much about this topic at all, I try to keep out of it” next time she brings it up.”

I think this is probably the best thing you can do under the circumstances. You have tried to be very tactful and I think she’s being unprofessional and pushing boundaries by continuing to bring it up when you’re clearly uncomfortable and don’t want to discuss it. If I was in your position I would find this intimidating as your livelihood is potentially under threat if she decides you are guilty of wrong think.

If it’s not relevant to your work then I don’t see why it is any of her business what your opinion is, either way.

Perhaps you could counter with what did she think about the Maya Forstater ruling? Hint at implications for HR policies.

I agree with those who would be tempted to say something about maya F's case and opinions.

Otherwise you'll probably find yourself going deeper and deeper into an impossible hole where you keep trying to deflect and eventually you'll break down.

I'd say, "Oh changing the subject, I watched a really interesting documentary the other day - The Rachel Divide. Have you seen it?"

I would LOVE to have a conversation with a transactivist about that documentary.

Say you don't know much about it at all and aren't really that focused on it , but your friend who works in HR was discussing some ruling about having opinions in work, and a women who was wrongly fired for not thinking the same as her boss and you found that quite interesting.....now back to work....

I wouldn't say you don't know much about it. That may be seen as an invitation to educate you.

You could grey rock, or you could say 'I've noticed you keep bringing up trans issues. Is this something that you need me to add this to the scope for x project? If so let me know and Id be happy to review the timeline /cost accordingly.

Ask her has she heard the Reith Lectures and what she thinks of what Chimamanda has to say.....

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/b00729d9

Could you say something along the lines of having noticed that she has strong opinions on this subject, but that it's not really relevant to the project so please can we just get on with (x, y and z that are relevant).

Awkward, as there's a power imbalance there. Op. Am glad for you that you are freelance and therefore not shackled. Maybe you need a few bland and neutralising stock phrases that don't provoke lectures or ranting. If she has any other subjects that fire her up, aim for those. If she asks about thoughts on celebrities, you could just say, for example, no idea on them, havent met them or not that familiar with their work.....

Can you say something along the lines of ‘ I have two very dear friends/sisters/relations with completely opposing views. I have decided I must remain neutral if I want them to stay that way. So this is a subject I Never discuss. Thankyou.’

It’s so sad this cannot be debated intelligently. My Dd and I are are on opposing sides, we just agree not to discuss it. I’m hoping one day she’ll stop being so naïve. I guess she’s hoping I won’t be so cynical.

I would give her a hard stare, count to three silently and then say stonily "As a professional I don't take a view on that". If you want to be re-employed then leave out the hard stare.

"Being a freelancer I find it best not to discuss divisive topics like religion, politics and money so I'd prefer not to get in"

“Oh gosh you know, I try to avoid discussing sex, religion or politics at work and this seems like a mixture of all three. Fancy a tea?”

That's really good @ Toomanysleepycats.

‘I never discuss this topic in the workplace.’

Similar to another poster I think I'd say that like topics such as religion and politics I think this topic is best not discussed in the workplace.

Thanks everyone, good advice here. Yes I do work hard, but I share an office with her and she sometimes likes to chit chat. I don’t start these conversations at all.

I think I will gray rock and ignore when she tries to pry, and if it continues I will talk about the maya ruling. It’s very annoying though, it’s like being in an office with a Tory who rants about liberals, or a Christian going on about atheists. It’s such a politically sensitive topic it seems mad to keep bringing it up at work.

Why on earth does she keep banging on about this at work?

Anyway, my preferred approach is to act like it's not a heated issue and innocently try to establish definitions - like "yes, I suppose it depends what someone means by transgender, because I think a lot of people would imagine someone who's had a sex change, but I know some people use the term quite differently now". And yes to casual and innocent mentions of the Forstater case - "I do think this is the kind of topic where well-meaning people can end up talking at cross-purposes and some businesses get themselves into trouble by jumping the gun...".

Imagine you were at work and your boss repeatedly raised abortion as an issue, and asked what religion you were, and what you thought about buffer zones.

None of these things are suitable work topics of conversation (unless you work in a very specific related sector/industry).

This woman sounds unprofessional, and as if she needs to learn about boundaries and keeping personal opinions to herself.

If it continues, it seems to me to be potentially bullying. Is there an HR department?

if you asked her to not discuss these issues, or make it clear you don't wish to, and she persists, I would be considering getting in touch with HR, a union, or her superiors.

Or again you can take the innocent and causal route in putting a face to a "TERF" - not yours, obviously, but you could mention "a friend" who you know to be a perfectly lovely, decent and moderate person, perhaps she has voted Labour all her life etc etc, who was surprised to be called "TERF" due to a mainstream and reasonable opinion of hers (such as no self-id in prisons and sports, or greater caution over child transition). Perhaps it made you realise that, as with many social issues, it's not a black and white case of rooting out the wicked witches and it's good to keep an open mind.... You get the drift!

Laugh wryly and say 'I think this is up there with religion, politics and Brexit as topics to keep away from at work.'