Advice please: boss keeps ranting about “TERFS”

[WeeBisom]

I’m currently doing freelance work for a woman who is high up in a very woke industry, shall we say (like publishing). It’s a big project and I expect to be working with her for some time. Things have been good, except lately she has started trying to engage me in conversation about trans stuff. Her and her company are completely on board with everything trans (they are stonewall trained).

The problem is she keeps ranting at me about “terfs” and “transphobes”. I’ve listened to her rant about Julie bindel, KJK, and dozens of other women. This makes me feel uncomfortable because I’m gender critical and I get the very strong impression that if she found this out for sure she would fire me.

Recently she’s started asking me questions and the aim is to find out where I stand on these things. When she rants I just go completely silent and change the subject , but it’s harder when she asks me something directly.

For instance, she said the other day she felt really sorry for a trans celebrity (ironically she called him “he” even though they are a trans woman). She turned to me and said “what do you think about him?” I have extremely strong opinions about this individual, none of which she would want to hear ! So I just kept quiet and said “hmm I don’t really know”.

I think she’s beginning to notice that I shut down around these conversations and get extremely awkward. I obviously don’t mind that she’s a TRA - that’s her business. But I don’t think I should be drawn into these kinds of conversations, especially when a) it’s not relevant to the work we are doing and b) our relationship will significantly sour if I come out as one of those dreaded “terfs”.

Any advice on what I should do? I’m considering just saying to her “you know I don’t know very much about this topic at all, I try to keep out of it” next time she brings it up.

For instance, she said the other day she felt really sorry for a trans celebrity (ironically she called him “he” even though they are a trans woman). She turned to me and said “what do you think about him?”

You could pull her up for her rudeness and transphobia!

Yeah I feel sorry for Eddie Izzard too. He's such a total attention-seeking loser.

I think @Consufed 's post is the perfect response to this. In a way she is out of order trying to draw you into such a polarised debate.

I follow a religious faith and would not be pleased if an atheist boss kept aggressively trying to draw me into a debate about it whilst making it clear which side she saw as the 'acceptable' one. Or same with Brexit. It's not on.

Politely make it clear that you beleve in Live and Let Live and would quite like it if she did the same.

I just say, I don't have any personal experiences of it, or act totally ignorant and pretend not to know any of the terms, or just say totally agree, I used to be a man.

Lots of good responses but I think this ticks the box.
Suspect she's being a goady bully - especially with the power imbalance and has picked up on your hesitancy / body language and is desperate to "educate" you for "wrongthink".
Grey rock and avoid. Prioritise your career rather than her emotional incontinence.

'It's really not something I care to discuss at work'

That's all you have to say.

In this instance I wouldn't engage at all. There's no point in talking to a hardcore TRA who pays your wages.
This sounds like the most sensible.

You could grey rock, or you could say 'I've noticed you keep bringing up trans issues. Is this something that you need me to add this to the scope for x project? If so let me know and Id be happy to review the timeline /cost accordingly

I avoid all this type of talk at work as it feels very much like a trap. My views are kept for those i feel safe and respected around. For me it isn't for the workplace.

She sounds horrendous, there’s a whole set of conversations I don't feel are for work and it’s essentially anything where people have strong opposing views. Interesting that it’s other women she is ranting about, that would be a red flag for me in terms of a longer professional relationship. I personally would be starting to look for a new client as this will become intolerable.

I’m fortunate I have the freedom to pick and chose clients and this would be a dealbreaker. I have one at the moment where a few virtue signalling white middle class males announce their pronouns in email (as if we could have missed their white middle class maleness in the entitlement visible in the rest of their emails) but I’m heartened that the women kicked up such a fuss when mixed sex toilets were announced a few years ago they had to row back on that change.

Ask her how this fits in with the work you're doing?

This is a good approach

Oh god do not get drawn in like this!

This is the best suggestion, IMO.

Well, I don't see it as getting drawn in, I see it as putting your foot down a bit rather than letting her constantly rant on unchallenged. The aim is not to get into a heartfelt debate but to basically say (under the guise of a breezy, innocent facade) "look, not everyone agrees with you, so rein it in", without actually putting yourself in the firing line.

I think I would go for something like “you’ve brought this debate up quite a lot of times now. Are you struggling with your gender identity? Would you like to talk about it?”

I’d start making a diary note of what she asks and when - might be useful if it gets to the point you need to have HR intervene and/or you take the company to court.

She’s being completely unprofessional here - as PP have said, what if she were asking about religion (well I guess she is really) or your views on abortion in such an obviously hostile fashion?

You could say: ‘that’s a sensitive topic as it directly affects someone very close to me, so cannot discuss it; for some of us, these are life or death matters, not suitable for work chit chat’

This will leave her guessing about potential trans or GC siblings, spouses, relatives. If you are a good actress, put on your best pained expression.

I think you are coping admirably OP. I would have hooted at her misgendering sleb trans/Izzard

1. has she thought about pronouns making people declare their preference even if they don't want to?
2. why is just trans she's focussed on. there's other minorities as well like neurodiversity which rarely gets discussed in my company

It's bizarre! Surely she wouldn't ask about who you vote for?

I would either try to stay neutral or feign
As much ignorance as possible

Many people don't seem to have a clue. Just say you think everyone has the right to be who they want and leave it there

Or lie . Get the project done but dont work for her anymore

This is how I would respond, over and over again.

She’ll keep trying though, she sounds like a nightmare. Similar to my old Tory housemate who kept ranting about “Pinkos” 🤣🤷‍♀️

Good luck!!

I like it 😁

Yes. This is someone trying to coerce you into saying something they would then use against you. She is not in good faith.

I'm sure you know this already OP but for any lurkers - most freelances and contractors have absolutely zero employment rights in this sort of situation. We all sign TORs that say things about not publicly undermining the organisation's stated values and always acting with diversity and inclusion in mind. They can drop any of us in a New York minute for pretty much any reason they like - the TORs are always extremely easy to interpret to fit almost anything. If you value things like 'paying the mortgage' and 'eating', this is NOT an area to get into. Forstater's situation at that think tank was unusual because they had had documented and long-standing practices of bringing contractors into a semi-employment roles, and Forstater had worked exclusively for them for a long time. Most organisations are not dumb enough to do that!

Good luck OP. Just stock up on stock phrases and go blank (and maybe enjoy a small passive-aggressive awareness that she will be finding you incredibly frustrating)

I think I might say something like "yes Ive definitely got opinions on this topic but Its generally not something I discuss at work"

Depends on the rest of your relationship and what the actual office set up is like but I have gone for saying what I mean without saying it and letting people interpret. So I’d say “it’s so important to discuss these things and everyone should feel validated but I never ever like to make someone feel like they have to declare a position before they’re ready. Imagine I’d someone was struggling with trans issues and heard us talking about it and it forced them to say something sooner or more deeply than they wanted to”.

sort if nudge nudge wink wink but actually just shut up and can we talk about the changes to bus stop now please.