That's Nicola telt.

[WandaWomblesaurus]

https://twitter.com/oceanbreathcafe/status/1597652609250119681?s=46&t=r0rB0VUPxPN48APJwhS_kg

I know she's been mentioned on another thread but flowers please for this brave woman.

Silly question, but does anyone think that encouraging young women and girls to to de-sex themselves by physically crushing and removing their healthy boobs isn''t violence against women?

... isn't promoting violence against women?

That heckler is amazing.

Shame on all those other attendees sitting there like mute stooges. Why the hell are they even bothering attending the conference if they’re not the slightest bit arsed about the biggest threat to women’s safety in my lifetime. Shame on them!

And yes, for the heckler.

Well said.

I would like to see a return to a world in which girls like my distressed, ND, disadvantaged young relative had been allowed to get on with being an unfashionable tomboy without major surgery.

As it is -- well, I pretend for her sake that she is now a 'boy'. Of course I do.

It’s laughable to think that trans people don’t have the same rights as the rest of us

They already do have the same rights as the rest of us though.
They just don't like the fact some of these are based on sex.
They are the ones actively removing the rights of others to have their wants and demands met.

It is not a 'human right' for some men to have access to things that are designated to those of the opposite sex.

It is not a 'human right' to force other people to go along with your self image.

It's not human right' to tell women we must pretend that a subset of men belong in our category because they think their feelings somehow make them women.

I don't know if it's violence against women specifically because I think men having surgery to remove their penis and testes and cosmetic facial reconstruction is just as bad. I see it as mindless sabotage of physically healthy bodies which I find sickening.

There will always be a very small number of men and women who want radical surgery but it's the way this surgical pathway is now being normalised in some quarters that concerns me. It is not normal to remove your healthy primary and secondary sexual organs.

I should also add that I also have a similar (possibly controversial) opinion on cosmetic (as opposed to reconstructive) surgery . Obviously is isn't on the same scale but people who carve up their faces/bodies etc in the pursuit of beauty are also mindlessly sabotaging their healthy bodies IMO.

Maybe it is because I use o be a nurse and have seen a lot of illness or perhaps because my own close family have considerable (genetic) health problems but I cannot understand people who don't massively value a physically healthy, working body.

Ok. So you agree that trans people have the same rights as the rest of us?

I was the one that told you that they do. You are the person that seem to think they don’t have the same rights and believe women should have been spending the last 30 years fighting for trans rights.

Im not sure if you are just trying to start an argument on this thread or are being deliberately naive?

Don’t you think this women may have been involved in this over the past 30 years?

I don’t doubt she is a TRA.

You have failed to answer my question - What is it that you really want to say?

I am actually saying what I really want to say. Anybody familiar with my posting style knows that I rarely hold back on asking what I really want to say.

I was merely seeking to answer your question because you posted it twice. I am not trying to start an argument but I am struggling to understand some things you post.

I don’t doubt she is a TRA

Do you think this brave woman was a TRA and not a feminist?

I don't know if it's violence against women specifically because I think men having surgery to remove their penis and testes and cosmetic facial reconstruction is just as bad.

If TWAW then that's also violence against women, isn't it?

But more seriously, there are now far more young women / girls going down this path than there are young men / boys. Girls are espeically vulnerable. Their response to sexism is no longer to gather together and fight the patriarchy, or just to go play football or do whatever they wanted to do.. girls are cutting their tits off instead.

Sturgeon is a politician, and her policies are encouraging it especially in girls. A meeting about violence against women with the First Minister at the front should focus on that. It doesn't need to say "what about the boys" - standing up for the girls would help them too.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay You are of course 100% correct in everything you say and I agree wholeheartedly.

My comment was merely pointing out how distasteful I find it when people carve up their physically healthy bodies.

I had forgotten the whole point of the meeting was about tackling violence against women which I agree make is worse.

I don’t doubt she is a TRA.

I'm really struggling to understand what point you are trying to make JayJay and I can see I'm not the only one.

You think the woman who stood up to heckle NS is a TRA? It doesn't seem very likely a TRA would heckle a TRA IMO.

Although the suffragettes are interesting, I've always been more fascinated by the woman who vehemently opposed the right to vote. Same with the women here, silently condemning their own half of the population to reduced rights.

Why would any woman deny a female rape victim the right to a same-sex doctor? Just why? How does your brain actually process that?

@BloodyHellKen My comment was merely pointing out how distasteful I find it when people carve up their physically healthy bodies.

Yes, me too. We have the right to harm ourselves but not to encourage other people to do the same. And especially not to encourage youngsters who maybe haven't experienced ill health and still feel invulnerable to potential harm.

You are the person that seem to think they don’t have the same rights and believe women should have been spending the last 30 years fighting for trans rights.

Err... no. I don't think this JayJay... and I didn't say this.

Just to clarify, I believe this feminist may be referring to her efforts (this is me surmising because I don't know who she even is) of fighting for LGB rights that would have included trans people at the time. As in, for the past 30 years she is likely to have been involved in campaigning for LGB rights to be established and they would have benefited trans people.

Do you think this is plausible? No?

Or do you think that LGB people had the same human rights as every one else 30 years ago?

As I said, I am confused by your posts and I am seeking clarity. If you don't wish to clarify, that is absolutely fine.

I was the one that told you that they do.

. Ok. I think I have known this for quite a while.

But I am still keen on asking posters such as MishyJDI just what rights trans people don't have because you know, one day, Mishy and other posters might give a coherent and balanced answer. One that isn't just about deprioritising sex based rights in order to promote 'gender'.

I think JayJay is simply tying to derail by trying to get us to focus on what Jay Jay perceives to be wrong with the lady exercising her right to talk freely, rather than focusing on what IS wrong with the Scot Gov policy on removing women's rights and ordering women to STFU.

I am sure there are many reasons why the women clapped - handmaidens etc.

One further reason is the cult of Sturgeon who, in some quarters, can do no wrong. This is tied up with independence for some but it is also a sort of refusal to see any fault in Scotland - unless it can be blamed on others.

I think the brave woman who spoke did as we all do, try to demonstrate her support for trans people as a way of preempting the inevitable cries of transphobia, simply for talking about the female sex.

Maybe @JayJayYoYo like me she works in the DVS and has had to work hard to separate the wants and needs of diverse client groups in order to provide a service that works for all.

Some of us do work in such sectors, have done for decades. Unless of course you think being trans is a new thing? In which case can I suggest you shut up, sit down, and do some listening!

Yes. This is it, isn't it Samphire.

That brave woman is likely to have been very active doing work that loosely involved supporting trans people AS WELL as her focus on women and girls. Or as an LGB campaigner that also worked to campaign for women's sex based rights.

She gave no indication that 'fighting' for trans rights was ever her focus. She merely made an uncontroversial comment about 'supporting' those rights. I feel pretty confident that many people on this board agree with her and 'support' those rights. They are basic human rights that everyone should have.

But also, she was quite likely making the statement to head off any 'transphobic' accusations.

That's it in a nutshell.

Because for every TW YouTube glamourpuss out there, there will be a very strange male who you never in a million years thought you'd be sharing your changing room / public toilet / prison cell with, with you having no utterly no right to challenge them.

Brave woman. If most of the people there rely on government funding they may be afraid to speak out in support. Instead they should hang their heads in shame and hide their faces.

A list of all the charities represented by those women sitting there and applauding the removal of the heckler should be published so we have full transparency on their beliefs and can make an informed choice on whether to donate to them.

Sturgeon admitted in her speech that men might abuse self-ID - ya think, ya numpty? - but it would appear that she is in favour of the "after the horse has bolted" approach to safeguarding. She thinks making it a criminal offence to lie about being transgender before getting a GRC is enough of a deterrent. Like the law against rape and the pathetic levels of prosecution.

'This event is for those who are committed to ending men’s violence against women and girls but particularly for senior managers in government and national public bodies, elected representatives, local authority officials, civil servants, and senior managers and policy officers working in the third sector.

In-person guests are invited to join the Zero Tolerance team for a drinks reception after the event.'

So that's who was in the meeting.

It seems really obvious to me that the marvellous heckler woman's point when she mentions supporting trans people for three decades is simply to reiterate that her pro-woman stance is not coming from a "transphobic" or "anti-trans" place. She has probably been supportive of trans-people's right to not be discriminated against for employment and what-not... which in the past 30 years will have been something that happens.