Key things to say to a head of inclusion sponsor

[Thethingswedoforlove]

Was out for dinner this evening with some friends. Turns out one of them (husband of my childhood friend) runs the dei network for a big U.K. firm. He is very senior there. They are a gay couple so they understand the perspective of facing discrimination etc. I asked whether the firm was linked to stonewall. Big yes. I said I thought they are toxic. And that I would like to separately talk to him to make him aware of how some women would definitely be feeling at his work but would be too scared to say openly. He called me a terf, said that the risks are overstated and that because he has a trans woman helping him lead the network that was already covered. I explained that she didn’t understand in the same way that I could explain as she isn’t a woman in the same way that I am a woman and he just totally dismissed me. His husband (my friend) was trying to broke the peace and suggest we had a conversation offline over lunch or something. I explained the legal risk I’m not following the equality act 2010 and that I would be happy to chat. I won’t follow it up but if he does, what can I possibly say to him? I said he is male and therefore doesn’t have a reason to get what I am trying to say and he asked me not to exclude him. Is it utterly pointless trying to chat to him?

You don't know any of the women in his workplace. Why are you assuming they can't make up their own minds on this issue, or speak up for themselves if they want to?

So much harder to speak up and insist the actual law is upheld when you might be sacrificing your next promotion, your selection for certain projects, your professional reputation and even your job.

This is an issue that affects ALL women, not some niche viewpoint. The OP was damn right (and courageous) to address it.

Yours is probably the first voice he's heard that is dissenting from the party line. That's why he's defensive.
Tbh I think you've done enough. That first hand grenade of a renegade thought is often enough to make people think why did X, who is usually an ok person say that?
The fall in reputation of Stonewall is not hard to find in the media if you open your eyes.

I know people - men and women - who work in places with jumped up zealots like this man being paid £££ for such roles. They fall into mostly two camps - roll their eyes and try to avoid as much as possible because they know it’s fashionable at the moment and will change at some point, or avoid like the plague and are too scared to open their mouths.

No one I know says ‘good job’ - even those this would supposedly ‘support’. But then it really only serves one master.

Speaking up for women’s rights is not “anti trans” spider - but you know this, you just don’t care

Why are you assuming they can't .... speak up for themselves if they want to?

Well, because if the head of DEI himself thinks it's OK to call someone who disagrees a TERF and honestly thinks that he's got all women's bases covered just by putting a transwoman in charge... you'd kind of figure that maybe - just maybe! - they can't.

The chances that every woman in a large organisation feels the same as he does are around... zero.

@SpiderToes i am most definitely not antitrans. And I did not say or claim or even believe that I stand for all women. I said that some women will be feeling uncomfortable. It is a large organisation. some women definitely will be feeling uncomfortable.
@Beamur i think you are right. No one will have spoken up against him before in many issues at all. If my friend asks me about it I will engage with him.

Oh rubbish. Stop patronising other women

I'm sorry, patronising? Can you explain what you mean by that?

I hope you're not trying to say that the things I listed have never happened to women speaking up for their rights in the workplace because we have plenty of evidence to show that's not true.

Something else you might ask about... do they have EDI training, is it supplied externally and if so who is responsible for the content, and what happens if an employee disagrees with any of the content? In the past some EDI training content (do not mention Stonewall!) has misrepresented the law. How do staff members safely report any concerns? Are there repercussions if they do?

It's always interesting when one woman tells another 'you don't speak for me' (with the subtext: so you shouldn't speak at all).

It's hardly feminist is it?

Yes, there are female people privileged enough to be able to have the whole world made mixed sex and revolving around male need, but there are many female people not as lucky or able. And the responsibility is to those women who will suffer because of stupid misogynist berks like this, to care equally about female needs, inclusion, access, feelings.

The ones who don't care and don't mind what happens don't need a voice, they're fine. It's about the necessity to care about the females who are affected.

Ach away. Maybe just say what isn’t anti trans.

It's absolutely anti-trans using feminism as a weak mask for bigotry

Why aren't women allowed to stand up for their rights then? Why should we prioritising mend desires for our needs?

If considering female equality is transphobic or women speaking up for other women? Then 'transphobic' has stopped being a word to see as negative.

<Snort>

It's not anti trans to care about the law being deliberately misrepresented, by powerful and influential people, to the detriment of a group who share a protected characteristic (in this case, women).

This man, who is paid to champion equality and diversity, thinks women can be adequately represented by someone who is not a member of this group (and that they should shut up and pipe down, or be verbally abused).

This is why the definition of sex in the Equality Act is so important (hint, if you agree, sign the petition).

And so many of these people in these sparkly new roles do not fight for women a rights at all focus on one sectors and one second only.

I had the ‘pleasure’ of sitting in one one such meeting where a hideous word was used to describe people with disabilities (and I’m talking a word I haven’t heard since I was at school).

Might be easier as everything is apparently transphobic - wingsoverscotland.com/everything-is-transphobic/

Good on you for speaking up. A lot of those championing inclusivity in companies a) don’t know what the law actually says and b) don’t include or consult women when formulating policy. You might have been the first to actually challenge him on these points and if he has anything about him, he might feel moved to think further.

Put him in touch with the Gay Men's Network. They'll set him right about fighting homophobia (which he's currently fighting for)

www.gaymensnetwork.com

Also the LGB Alliance, which if he's been Stonewalled he will regard as a hate group with absolutely no justification. Tell him he's got to offer inclusion to people who don't agree with him and that sticking only with ideas that he agrees with will get his organisations sued:

lgballiancecymru.wales

I might also write to the HR department of the organisation he's working with and recount a worrying conversation you had with him in which he doesn't seem to understand the Equality Act and pointing out what trouble that could get them into.

I think that decent employers need to be aware of the damage some of their internal networks are doing. D&I is always run by gender zealots.

@SpiderToes Speaking as a woman, I'd be thoroughly pissed off if our head of DEI had been listening to some random anti-trans friend instead of his own colleagues. Not all women oppose trans inclusion. GCs do not speak for us all and it's deeply patronising and paternalistic to imagine that you do, or that it's your job to. It is, once again, simply not her business.
Same, and well said