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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Guardian on Mermaids

93 replies

zanahoria · 17/11/2022 17:12

It took them a while but here we go

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/17/mermaids-why-has-the-trans-charity-been-in-the-news

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 17/11/2022 17:18

Well done, Guardian.

'The Telegraph story acknowledged that Mermaids staff directed the person to read a safety sheet, and in a statement after the story was published, the charity said it “takes a harm-reduction position”. Green argues supplying a well-fitted binder has to be better than “a young person using duct tape on themselves”.'

The study into binder safety shows the opposite, Green. Commercially produced binders had more side effects and harm than 'DIY' methods.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27300085/

'Over 97% reported at least one of 28 negative outcomes attributed to binding. Frequency (days/week) was consistently associated with negative outcomes (22/28 outcomes). Compression methods associated with symptoms were commercial binders (20/28), elastic bandages (14/28) and duct tape or plastic wrap (13/28'

KatMcBundleFace · 17/11/2022 17:27

Good grief. Owen Jones must be throwing the world's biggest tantrum!!

334bu · 17/11/2022 17:29

Thanks for link

ControversialOpening · 17/11/2022 17:40

Owen Jones must be throwing the world's biggest tantrum

That happens pretty much every day.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/11/2022 17:41

This is very disingenous from SG, about Mermaids, GIDS and puberty blockers (quote below).

  1. All around the world, as I understand it, children put on puberty blockers because of gender issues almost always go on to cross-hormones afterwards. Inevitable, as their brains have not matured, they've gone through social transition, there is no real way back. The fact that children with precocious puberty take them for a short period and then stop taking them and go through the normal puberty for their sex is therefore not comparable. She also skates over the fact that many of those children do have problems in adult life which are related to the puberty blockers, as do adults prescribed them for prostate cancer or gynaecological problems.
  2. GIDS staff have testified in the past that Mermaids staff/volunteers have accompanied families to appointments. It's also been obvious that many children and their parents have been coached in what to say to get them referred to endocrinology to get PBs.
  3. Finally, why is anybody placing any reliance on what SG says about this? She's not medically qualified. She has no science or psychology degree. She's never worked as a health care practitioner. She used to be an IT manager for a branch of the CAB. Her so called expertise is entirely derived from taking her child to the US to get cross-hormones prescribed when said child was 12 (NHS would still refuse to do this, only Gender GP would do this in the UK, which is why Mermaids recommended them for so long). Then she took child to Thailand so the child could have gender reassignment surgery on child's 16th birthday. And all because the poor kid liked playing with dolls as a toddler and his Dad couldn't cope with it.

And it has been accused of wrongly thinking it knows best, including in the area of puberty blockers.

The Times has claimed that staff in the charity’s forum promote puberty blockers as “safe and reversible treatment, despite medical consensus that the long-term impact on teenage development remains unknown”.

The NHS website says little is known about their long-term effects, adding: “Although Gids advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be. It’s also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children’s bones.”

Green maintains that fully trained Mermaids staff set out the options and would be investigated if they went beyond that. She maintains that puberty blockers are safe, pointing out that, despite what it says on the website, the NHS still prescribes them.

However, since an interim report by Cass was published in the summer, the NHS has determined only to prescribe them in a formal research setting, which Green says is “inappropriate”.

She accepts that the difference between what the NHS website and Mermaids say is confusing, describing it as “frustrating”.

“If you look back, blocking medications were first used in the 1980s for cisgender children to stop them going through early puberty. And it’s been used ever since then, so that we’ve got adults out there who went through that treatment from three, four or five years old. And then when that was withdrawn, normal puberty resumed, and they’re now living their lives like everybody else … I think 1988 was the first time that it was used [for trans children] by the Dutch, again for the same thing, to pause puberty.”

Green insists Mermaids has not influenced Gids to prescribe the drugs in the past.

“It would be really strange if the biggest charity that supported trans children didn’t have a relationship at all with the only NHS service that provides support for kids and young people. But we don’t have any say on how they operate, how they prescribe, what they do in terms of the process.”

DontAskIDontKnow · 17/11/2022 17:47

That article should be entitled “an interview with Susie Green where she defends Mermaids against recent reports and allegations”. There is zero actual journalism involved and it is clearly written, as so many guardian articles on this subject, to downplay every criticism.

zanahoria · 17/11/2022 17:50

" Owen Jones must be throwing the world's biggest tantrum"

It must be humiliating after he even had to come out as an Adrian Chiles fan to gain favour

OP posts:
zanahoria · 17/11/2022 17:51

". There is zero actual journalism involved and it is clearly written, as so many guardian articles on this subject, to downplay every criticism."

Indeed but at least they are acknowledging it is happening

OP posts:
OldCrone · 17/11/2022 18:09

She maintains that puberty blockers are safe, pointing out that, despite what it says on the website, the NHS still prescribes them.

However, since an interim report by Cass was published in the summer, the NHS has determined only to prescribe them in a formal research setting, which Green says is “inappropriate”.

She accepts that the difference between what the NHS website and Mermaids say is confusing, describing it as “frustrating”.

Susie Green seems to think she's more of an expert in this area of medicine than either the NHS or Dr Hilary Cass. Despite having no medical qualifications whatsoever.

SallyLockheart · 17/11/2022 18:27

And yet at the Mermaids vs Charity Commission and LGBA, the Mermaids witnesses were all very clear that they weren't medical experts

Boiledbeetle · 17/11/2022 18:40

But we did an enhanced DBS [Disclosure and Barring Service check], we did some general top-level Google and internet searches. We did a social media search [and it] didn’t come up.

it this bit that did it for me SG talking about the guy who was into children and defended paedophiles. You can hear the petulance in her voice

I mean seriously a children's charity HAS TO DO BETTER. it only takes a quick Google to find all sorts of unsuitable stuff that that particular gentleman was writing about. He want exactly hiding his thoughts and feelings.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/11/2022 18:58

Boiledbeetle · 17/11/2022 18:40

But we did an enhanced DBS [Disclosure and Barring Service check], we did some general top-level Google and internet searches. We did a social media search [and it] didn’t come up.

it this bit that did it for me SG talking about the guy who was into children and defended paedophiles. You can hear the petulance in her voice

I mean seriously a children's charity HAS TO DO BETTER. it only takes a quick Google to find all sorts of unsuitable stuff that that particular gentleman was writing about. He want exactly hiding his thoughts and feelings.

They should subcontract the vetting process to MN FWR and GC Twitter. Our googling skills appear to be better than Mermaids and all the major political parties. (They could hardly be worse.) Then again, it's quite an incentive to look properly when you actually want to find something out.

BedTaker · 17/11/2022 19:08

Interestingly, even though this terribly transphobic (transphobic being absolutely anything that doesn't lick the arse of gender ideology) article has been written by the media outlet he works for, OJ hasn't tweeted about this, despite being such a staunch trans ally.

One can only assume that this is because he does not want to draw attention to the issues raised in the article......

ArabellaScott · 17/11/2022 19:09

KatMcBundleFace · 17/11/2022 17:27

Good grief. Owen Jones must be throwing the world's biggest tantrum!!

I think that accurately describes his career to date.

ResisterRex · 17/11/2022 19:22

Green argues supplying a well-fitted binder has to be better than “a young person using duct tape on themselves”.'

Can she hear herself?! I've probably answered my own question

Clymene · 17/11/2022 19:29

But we did an enhanced DBS [Disclosure and Barring Service check], we did some general top-level Google and internet searches. We did a social media search [and it] didn’t come up.

In news that will surprise no one, this is is a lie.

I searched for Breslow on Google with a date range of 2010-1st March 2022 assuming a reasonable lead time for hiring a charity trustee (he was appointed in July 2022).

On the very first page of google results is this article: https://4w.pub/lecturer-claims-children-perverse/ which was published in January 2022. Some extracts:

"Jacob Breslow has argued for the interests of pedophiles since at least 2011, when he gave a presentation at a symposiumm organized by self-described “people who are attracted to children” in B4U-Act, an NGO founded in 2003 by convicted child molester Michael Melsheimerr."

"The topic of children acting out sexually also features in Jacob Breslow’s 2021 book Ambivalent Childhoods: Speculative Futures and the Psychic Life of the Child. The Gender Studies lecturer starts a chapter titled “Desiring the Child” with a description of a 12 year old boy’s dance in front of a crowd of two hundred people."

So either they didn't research him at all or they did and decided the fact that he has a clear and unambiguous interest in sexualising children was no barrier to him being appointed a trustee of a children's charity.

RoyalCorgi · 17/11/2022 19:29

DontAskIDontKnow · 17/11/2022 17:47

That article should be entitled “an interview with Susie Green where she defends Mermaids against recent reports and allegations”. There is zero actual journalism involved and it is clearly written, as so many guardian articles on this subject, to downplay every criticism.

I agree. I don't quite understand other people's enthusiasm for the piece. It allows Green full rein to put forward her batshit ideas but doesn't interview anyone else at all, just quotes from rival newspapers with the implication that they are biased or overstating the case. They really should have interviewed one of Mermaids' critics to get a balanced view. They also don't acknowledge the full awfulness of the LSE guy, just his involvement in one conference.

xalo · 17/11/2022 19:51

Wondering if Children in Need donate to Mermaids...

AlisonDonut · 17/11/2022 20:11

xalo · 17/11/2022 19:51

Wondering if Children in Need donate to Mermaids...

They do. There's a thread on it.

LaughingPriest · 17/11/2022 20:12

ResisterRex · 17/11/2022 19:22

Green argues supplying a well-fitted binder has to be better than “a young person using duct tape on themselves”.'

Can she hear herself?! I've probably answered my own question

Surely a person would only use duct tape on themselves if they've been convinced that men don't have breasts/ that breasts mean you are a woman, rather than your gender being your unique identity regardless of what body you have?

ResisterRex · 17/11/2022 21:17

Do journalists who are asking hard questions, "work with" their subjects? I think not. It's a puff piece:

twitter.com/mermaids_gender/status/1593271088146010113?s=46&t=rNPWwu6Ok9N-66A4KxRrZg

Interview with our CEO is now live in the guardian. Thank you @Haroon_Siddique for working with us on this 🌟Read it here:

Amusingly, a few replies slipped through the net:

twitter.com/kuriousoranj1/status/1593273809519386629?s=46&t=rNPWwu6Ok9N-66A4KxRrZg

twitter.com/banubiba/status/1593282778082287617?s=46&t=rNPWwu6Ok9N-66A4KxRrZg

ResisterRex · 17/11/2022 21:23

Useful quote tweet on the "influence" non-question and non-answer

twitter.com/japanesepolar/status/1593344658498887684?s=46&t=rNPWwu6Ok9N-66A4KxRrZg

BatCheeseIsFine · 17/11/2022 21:59

“debate pitting trans rights supporters against gender-critical feminists“

same old same old misrepresentation and slurs. Start out by heavily implying those two things are mutually exclusive and being gender critical - critical of gender stereotypes- means being opposed to “trans rights “. I criticise gender stereotypes but I want trans people to have the same rights and protections as other protected groups and for them to exist in a reasonable balance. And a number of trans people themselves are also gender critical and opposed to gender ideology, especially regarding children.

if a bunch of extremist Christian’s started demanding the right to take over mosques and the right to force other people to call them Sir, and I objected, that wouldn’t mean I was opposed to “Christian rights” or protections for religious people. It is such an insidious, ongoing lie.

WallaceinAnderland · 17/11/2022 22:53

Love how the LGBA is referred to as a gay rights organisation, rather than the name calling they usually get. This is superb.

BellaAmorosa · 17/11/2022 23:20

OldCrone · 17/11/2022 18:09

She maintains that puberty blockers are safe, pointing out that, despite what it says on the website, the NHS still prescribes them.

However, since an interim report by Cass was published in the summer, the NHS has determined only to prescribe them in a formal research setting, which Green says is “inappropriate”.

She accepts that the difference between what the NHS website and Mermaids say is confusing, describing it as “frustrating”.

Susie Green seems to think she's more of an expert in this area of medicine than either the NHS or Dr Hilary Cass. Despite having no medical qualifications whatsoever.

That really jumped out at me too, @OldCrone!
The arrogance.