Jacinda Ardern accused of killing her reelection hopes with kindness

[JanieAllen]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jacinda-ardern-accused-of-killing-her-re-election-hopes-with-kindness-pcx79tg8d

archive here archive.ph/z8puL

Another small country leader off the rails... interesting enough the article does not mention the trans wokeness which has settled like a blight across NZ

Ah. Countering rational argument with a slogan I see, landOFconfusion. And as someone with around 60 family members born and bred in New Zealand, I can assure you that there isn't consensus on this issue. Just as many are here, there are people who can see what's happening but are too scared to speak out because of zealots who are determined to stamp out free speech on this matter.

I presume you're too young to remember the satanic abuse scare that hit New Zealand in the 90s — a while after it hit the US and the the UK. Here's a link so that you can read up on your country's history:

www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume10/j10_9.htm

At least that scare didn't involve the state-endorsed mutilation and sterilisation of young people and the trashing of women's rights.

Err... no.

There is no additional context that resembled the truth that would ever make your victim blaming of Fred Sargeant acceptable.

That you try to portray it as 'bad faith' interpretation is laughable.

Your very own hypocrisy and lack of credibility however is absolutely clear to see for anyone reading along.

You will never understand why my country has achieved a political consensus on this issue, because you lack the cultural context or awareness to realise that hate has no home here.

It is quite the leap to say that I lack the cultural context. But whatever. I also take my cue from the very many female Maori voices that are rising steadily to be heard. I await to hear you denounce their voices as lacking 'the cultural context'.

And by the way, you do realise you are on a FEMINIST chat board.... of course, you do. You know, speaking of 'cultural context' and everything....

That seems to be your over riding aim on this board, to deride and admonish those people who infuriate you by ignoring your self-proclaimed moral superiority and wisdom. Namely.... females.

You really seem to have this misogynistic compulsion and every post it comes through clearer and clearer.

But 'hate has no home here' is a wonderful mantra. Did you make it up yourself?

How amazing that 'hate' is framed as 'give a group of people everything they demand or else you hate them'!!

I reckon 99% of women posting on this board recognises the toddler mentality of that mantra?

And the significance that you cannot.

I have seen this poster ignore a Maori woman poster on this very board.

I think anyone who has come across this poster's contributions recognise them for what they are.

Why do posters like @landOFconfusion think coming on a feminist board and telling women they are stupid, don’t understand politics and just need to be quiet. That’s just not really a good look. What are they so afraid will happen if women speak?

‘No hate’ apparently but stop talking about your rights while you’re at it.

One reason could well be that there is so much underlying hatred of females that some people will do anything they can to humiliate them to shut them up.

One reason could well be that some people have protected their lack own of knowledge and experience with an wildly exaggerated confidence in the knowledge and experience that they do have.

One reason could well be that some people are males and identify as 'women' and hate that females and other males do not accept they are 'women.

One reason could well be that male socialisation may be impossible to get rid of and some males genuinely either cannot see that male socialisation or do and it makes them incredibly angry that they cannot seem to change it in themselves.

One reason could well be that if a woman speaks, that all men and boys will magically disappear off the face of the planet.

One reason could well be that all women ARE stupid and don't understand politics and just need to be quiet.

Well that last one was sarcastic, in case readers did not pick it up.

And of course, these reasons are not exclusive either.

Those are all very good reasons @Helleofabore and explain a lot about why some posters feel the need to try to curtail what is said here. It must really really upset them when we don’t comply. Reminds me of cutted up pears in a way 😂

And of course, these reasons I listed in my post may not be anything to do with why one particular poster posts on the feminist board and uses terms like:

"you lack the cultural context"

I am sure there are many other reasons they take any opportunity to misrepresent what women say and every opportunity to shame and admonish women.

Here you go landofconfusion:

All of the participants in this confrontation are despicable.

If you go to a Pride event with a protest placard that tells event participants that they shouldn’t feel pride in their identity then you’re a real life troll who wants to provoke confrontation.

And similarly if you feel moved to violence by a weak and pathetic old man with a placard then you’ve got no sense of restraint or self-control.

then followed by

Just to be clear, I’m saying that the person who attended a pride event for the purpose of creating confrontation got exactly what he wanted: confrontation.

It’s entirely possible to despise both sides in a situation like this.

What part of this is not victim blaming Fred Sargeant for being assaulted protesting peacefully at an event that he was integral to creating?

I would really like you to be very clear about it as you seem to think there is some context in your posts that make them acceptable.

the bad faith poster who thinks that snipping out quotes to remove all of their original context passes for a clever rebuttal.

I have now not snipped out anything in your posts and for anyone who is interested, the 3 page thread is below for even more context.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4637325-fred-sargeant-assaulted?page=2

You came onto this thread making hugely inflated accusations about 'covid deniers' and 'anti-vaxxers' and you simply cannot conceive that you have a deep prejudice that filters into your posts.

If you don't want your posts to be read and remembered, that is a pretty big issue on a public forum isn't it?

Tg for posts from women on the FWR board.

Without it I’d feel stuck in a 1984 version of society where language erasure targets women and girls.

I think we can all guess why that poster takes great delight in scolding women. On a feminist board.

so @land if we lack the cultural context to understand, why not enlighten us? You seem to be very keen to infer we are thick. Or bigoted. Why is that?

Speaking of lack the cultural context, landofconfusion, how bizarre then that you felt you had any authority into James Barry and could take that opportunity to scold women about her.

I mean. You really missed the 'context' of that woman's life when you posted on that thread about James Barry's life. One which you have no authoritative knowledge about and framed her life in the context of the modern era and not the 'cultural context' of her era and the realities of her female existence at that time.

What a hypocrite.

You okay, hun? You seem really cross.

Also for some reason this scene has come into my head.

😁

"There is nothing to talk to me about that I don't already know!" Love it.

You will never understand why my country has achieved a political consensus on this issue, because you lack the cultural context or awareness to realise that hate has no home here.

I don’t expect you to understand … and I don’t expect you to even try.

Actually I'd be really interested to understand the cultural context that has the effect of capturing an entire parliament on this issue. I don't think "hate has no home here" is an entirely convincing analysis. There is something a bit worrying about "consensus" in this instance and writing off feminists who have concerns as hateful and unhelpful nonsense is clearly a massive step backwards for women and girls in NZ.

"hate has no home here"

I had no idea NZ was such a utopia. No hate crime at all, then?

By the way, landofcontusion, you seemed to miss the part where I did indeed point out how these decisions were snuck in at a time when the repercussions were not well understood.

I also point out how in Australia, laws that could be used to prevent therapeutic treatments for young people with gender dysphoria were brought in without people being aware. These were brought in during Covid lock downs when the population was distracted and very concerned about their health and livelihoods.

That is in addition to Gillard's move in 2013. Well before New Zealand I point out.

In Ireland, laws were put through together with same sex marriage laws as a distraction. And now they have a high % of males in the female prison, albeit a small prison population.

I fully understand landofcontusion just how these bills can be brought in without appropriate consultation and without appropriate debate.

New Zealand is not 'special' for doing this in any way. It is not the first country to do so and it will not be the last. Trying to paint New Zealand as some special place that it is a place of love and tolerance more than any other country speaks more about wilful blindness and aspiration than reality.

Any person saying "hate has no home here" when these bills are brought in without a wide consultation because MPs have been sold the bill with:

“This [bill] shows compassion, the kind of compassion we want in a liberal democracy ... It is very meaningful for those that benefit, while for those that don't agree with this law change it really has no effect on them whatsoever.”

Has ignored the hypocrisy of their very own thinking. No hate? When the population have been told 'it really has no effect on them whatsoever.' And yet, it already has had an effect on females and they are now voicing their complaints.

Yeah. Nah. I think who ever thinks that that statement about 'no effect' is true is absolutely full of hate. For females.

Sneaking bills through early before people have worked out the ramifications is not new and has been detailed in the Dentons report I believe. It was a deliberate political manoeuvre.

New Zealand loves to portray itself as enlightened, but there's a dark underbelly that only people like Jane Campion (Top of the Lake) are prepared to talk about openly. Domestic violence is a major issue and there's entrenched sexism even among educated middle class and apparently enlightened Kiwis such as my family. My cousins have seven sons between them and they all have technical or scientific or law degrees and are higher earners. Only one of their sisters has a STEM degree. The others are kindergarten teachers, dental nurses, work in retail and admin — typical gender-stereotyped career choices. One of them has reached her mid-30s without marrying or having children and her mum (my cousin) is in despair about it:

It's a society where people like to give the appearance of being progressive but it's only skin deep. Any chance to advance men's rights and they'll take it.

thanks, nomorequinoa. Sounds a bit like Scotland. Wearing a new shiny progressive mask that doesn't really manage to cover up the same old face for very long.

NZ totally free from hate, I see... twitter.com/ReduxxMag/status/1592581398787133440