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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jacinda Ardern accused of killing her reelection hopes with kindness

96 replies

JanieAllen · 14/11/2022 08:37

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jacinda-ardern-accused-of-killing-her-re-election-hopes-with-kindness-pcx79tg8d

archive here archive.ph/z8puL

Another small country leader off the rails... interesting enough the article does not mention the trans wokeness which has settled like a blight across NZ

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 15/11/2022 10:41

ArabellaScott · 15/11/2022 10:08

The colonised aspect is interesting, yes. Scotland's parliament is very new, of course, too. Canada's not so much, though!

Canada has really embraced the colonialist way of understanding their history, though, which I think is the important thing. You can't go to any event now, there is no school, where the first thing on the morning announcements, or the first thing you see on the webpage, is a message saying that they are sitting on unceaded indigenous land, and in progressive circles whites, at least those who can't dig up some other marginalized identity like Acadians, are called settlers.

On the CBC, right there with gender ideology, indigenous stories are equally unreliable because they follow a prescribed narrative. It makes for terrible reporting, and often bizarre too, you listen and can tell there is something more going on in whatever they are talking about, but they won't ask those questions, or report on things that don't fit the impression they want to give. Even when it means they leave certain members of that community without any representation of their views.

Anti-colonialism as an organizing principle in thought seems to fit very neatly into identity politics.

ArabellaScott · 15/11/2022 10:50

Read this yesterday: www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-sinister-attempts-to-decolonise-mathematics/

'In New Zealand the school chemistry and biology syllabus has been decolonised and now invokes the concept of mauri, or life force, to give the atomic theory a new spiritual dimension. This is because of a central diktat that Maori knowledge must be given equal status to other forms of knowledge, including science.'

I don't know enough about Maori culture to even comment, other than to note this quote:

'Those who adhere to decoloniality don’t think they’re being racist. This is because, strange as it may seem, they don’t believe rational knowledge is superior to other kinds of knowledge. In this world view it is not insulting to suggest non-Europeans prefer ‘other ways of knowing’ to rationality and science.'

ArabellaScott · 15/11/2022 10:51

Onthecuspofabreakthrough · 15/11/2022 10:21

Scotland had a Parliament from the 13th century until the early 1700's.

Yes, but I expect it was somewhat different to the Holyrood of today?

Onthecuspofabreakthrough · 15/11/2022 13:13

ArabellaScott · 15/11/2022 10:51

Yes, but I expect it was somewhat different to the Holyrood of today?

I was not, despite what my mirror may suggest, around back then to compare Grin

TheBiologyStupid · 15/11/2022 14:08

ArabellaScott · 14/11/2022 16:47

I wonder if smaller countries tend to be faster to adopt more extreme policies?

Be interesting to look at politics specifically related to population size.

I think it's about small countries attempting to distance themselves from their colonial pasts and portray themselves as more liberal and socially just than bigger countries. Not that there's anything wrong with aspiring towards social justice per se, but there's a danger of taking it to foolish extremes.

ArabellaScott · 15/11/2022 14:17

TheBiologyStupid · 15/11/2022 14:08

I think it's about small countries attempting to distance themselves from their colonial pasts and portray themselves as more liberal and socially just than bigger countries. Not that there's anything wrong with aspiring towards social justice per se, but there's a danger of taking it to foolish extremes.

Yes, I can see that narrative promoted quite a lot. It's just ... they aren't actually that 'liberal' and it's questionable how 'just' they are.

TheBiologyStupid · 15/11/2022 14:51

Absolutely, Arabella. They are delusional about how they see themselves - Nicola Sturgeon should be aware of the pitfalls of that, of course:
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!

landOFconfusion · 16/11/2022 06:52

The linked article contains no discussion of sex, gender, or gender identity. But more interestingly to me, the Government that is led by Jacinda Adern has made no changes to any legislation regarding transgender people in New Zealand or changed their legal standing.

So why was it posted here‽

Reading through the posts here suggests that most of the animus directed towards Jacinda Ardern is founded upon anti-vax idiocy or covid denialism.

Happylittlechicken · 16/11/2022 07:01

Errr well let’s see. This is a feminism board. Jacinta is a female. A lot of her policies will affect women and girls disproportionately. Why should it not be discussed here?

ArabellaScott · 16/11/2022 08:11

Oh, feminists definitely shouldn't discuss politics, Happylittlechicken, didn't you get landOFconfusion's instructions?

RealFeminist · 16/11/2022 08:12

TheBiologyStupid · 15/11/2022 14:51

Absolutely, Arabella. They are delusional about how they see themselves - Nicola Sturgeon should be aware of the pitfalls of that, of course:
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!

I CANNAE STAND MCGONNAGLE

Happylittlechicken · 16/11/2022 08:16

ArabellaScott · 16/11/2022 08:11

Oh, feminists definitely shouldn't discuss politics, Happylittlechicken, didn't you get landOFconfusion's instructions?

I’ve never been good at following irrational instructions lol. Ooops. I think @landOFconfusion is going to be very disappointed in me. I’ll try to care. Honest.

Helleofabore · 16/11/2022 09:00

Don’t worry landofconfusion.

As per usual, your own focus on covid and anti-vax has been noted and I think any person actually reading the thread rather than your own prejudiced misrepresentation will be able to see that themselves.

And Jacinda’s performance can be scrutinised across different aspects of her leadership on a feminist board because she is lauded as a feminist.

Maybe your interpretation of feminism is as good as the interpretation of the posts on this thread so far.

And maybe you have just taken another opportunity to berate women for not agreeing with you and your viewpoint of the world.

It does seem to infuriate you so much that you need to misrepresent it as ‘anti-vax and covid denial’ so you feel you can shame and denigrate posters on the thread.

Crack on. It is not like we haven’t seen it all before.

Signalbox · 16/11/2022 09:27

The linked article contains no discussion of sex, gender, or gender identity. But more interestingly to me, the Government that is led by Jacinda Adern has made no changes to any legislation regarding transgender people in New Zealand or changed their legal standing.

So why was it posted here‽

NZ have introduced self-ID in the last 2 years. Children in schools are encouraged to think they can change sex and JA is happy for men to compete with women so long as the rules say that is fine.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9711439/amp/Jacinda-Ardern-supports-transgender-athlete-Laurel-Hubbard-included-Olympic-team.html

amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/new-zealand-passes-law-making-it-easier-to-change-sex-on-birth-certificates

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/schools-told-to-let-students-choose-their-gender-identities-and-names/MMDOBPKBTDSYHU2UJBWYAF675Q/

landOFconfusion · 16/11/2022 09:49

For the sake of those who aren’t joining the dots, the venn diagram containing the set of people who support anti-vax idiocy and covid denialism has an almost perfect overlap with the subset of people who absolutely hate Jacinda Ardern. And that hatred is on clear display here with multiple posters making disparaging comments about New Zealand’s covid lockdowns and other actions by Ardern’s Government such as closing international borders.

Covidiots are enraged by Ardern because she led a Government that was highly successful at organising a nationwide vaccination program that saw almost all New Zealanders vaccinated prior to international borders being reopened.

Readers can read the vehemence of the comments in this thread and draw their own conclusions.

ArabellaScott · 16/11/2022 09:55

Oh, we will, landofconfusion, fear not! 😂

Happylittlechicken · 16/11/2022 10:06

Ummm. @landOFconfusion i agreed with the covid measures but still think Jacinda Ahern is not a good leader. You seem very invested in depicting us all as covid deniers and anti vaxxers. I’ve had all covid jabs plus boosters. I think you’re missing the whole point. She is a bad leader when it comes to women and girls because her policies are mainly to the detriment of those people, especially disadvantaged and indigenous females. High housing costs will affect poor women and children the most, as will her trans policies and her attitude to drug crime. I think this is bad, what do you think.

landOFconfusion · 16/11/2022 10:07

Signalbox · 16/11/2022 09:27

The linked article contains no discussion of sex, gender, or gender identity. But more interestingly to me, the Government that is led by Jacinda Adern has made no changes to any legislation regarding transgender people in New Zealand or changed their legal standing.

So why was it posted here‽

NZ have introduced self-ID in the last 2 years. Children in schools are encouraged to think they can change sex and JA is happy for men to compete with women so long as the rules say that is fine.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9711439/amp/Jacinda-Ardern-supports-transgender-athlete-Laurel-Hubbard-included-Olympic-team.html

amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/new-zealand-passes-law-making-it-easier-to-change-sex-on-birth-certificates

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/schools-told-to-let-students-choose-their-gender-identities-and-names/MMDOBPKBTDSYHU2UJBWYAF675Q/

Yes you’re right. New Zealand did introduce legislation that allows people to self-ID on official documents. But what you don’t realise is that it wasn’t introduced by Ardern - it was the product of parliamentary consensus.

The Bill that introduced self-ID in NZ passed through Parliament with unanimous support from all five political parties and every single MP. It wasn’t considered controversial by the NZ public and still isn’t because this country has no interest in fabricated culture wars.

Even the most right wing and conservative party in the NZ Parliament supported Self-ID on the basis that:

“This [bill] shows compassion, the kind of compassion we want in a liberal democracy ... It is very meaningful for those that benefit, while for those that don't agree with this law change it really has no effect on them whatsoever.”

Signalbox · 16/11/2022 10:08

Readers can read the vehemence of the comments in this thread and draw their own conclusions.

Doesn’t this go without saying on any thread?

Helleofabore · 16/11/2022 10:21

Readers can read the vehemence of the comments in this thread and draw their own conclusions.

Absolutely they can.

Your own vehemence and exaggeration of the focus of this thread included.

Just another way to legitimise berating women who disagree with you. Hard to miss it.

Helleofabore · 16/11/2022 10:23

And that hatred is on clear display here with multiple posters making disparaging comments about New Zealand’s covid lockdowns and other actions by Ardern’s Government such as closing international borders.

multiple Hmm. And had many posters engaged with those posts? Until you came along and exaggerated their importance so you could vilify posters for whatever your reason today is?

Signalbox · 16/11/2022 10:30

Yes you’re right. New Zealand did introduce legislation that allows people to self-ID on official documents. But what you don’t realise is that it wasn’t introduced by Ardern - it was the product of parliamentary consensus.

So was it a private members bill? The legislation still must have been proposed by someone. Legislation doesn't just magically materialise when there is parliamentary consensus.

It wasn’t considered controversial by the NZ public and still isn’t because this country has no interest in fabricated culture wars.

In this context "no interest in fabricated culture wars" = zero consideration was given to the rights of women and girls or the safety of women and girls.

Helleofabore · 16/11/2022 10:30

It is very meaningful for those that benefit, while for those that don't agree with this law change it really has no effect on them whatsoever.

Yes. We are aware of governments and MPs making this kind of claim.

It is exceedingly dangerous to gaslight women into believing that these law changes have ‘no effect on them whatsoever’.

Maybe you can look directly into the eyes of a victim of rape or sex abuse and tell them males using single sex spaces, from toilets to hospital wards and prisons and tell them it doesn’t have any impact on them whatsoever.

Maybe you can look directly into the eyes of a female sportsperson who misses out their opportunity to live their dream and to support themselves doing something they love and tell them there is no impact on them whatsoever.

I can’t.

Maybe males find it easier to do this….

derxa · 16/11/2022 10:33

waterwitch · 15/11/2022 08:56

StealtheatingTunnocks, I haven’t seen what she said about cows, but actually it’s a thing! Cows aren’t really designed to just eat grass/artificial feed, and if they have a more appropriate diet they do produce less methane - but obv that’s associated with less intensive production & higher prices. Just sayin….

Get away with you

Helleofabore · 16/11/2022 10:41

NotBadConsidering · 15/11/2022 09:41

Actually it’s burping. Cattle burp out huge amounts of methane and are the main agricultural source of emissions around the world. Methane is a potent warming gas. I’m Australia, methane from cattle makes up 11% of the country’s total carbon emissions, and the CSIRO (Australia’s government science group) has invented a seaweed supplement to feed to cattle which drops this number by 80%.

So it’s not totally mad.

New Zealand has huge problems with nitrogen run off from farms into waterways though.

I am sure we watched this on land line the other day!

It is very interesting.