Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

[nauticant]

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

MG alas FriendsofJoanne

They have fallen into a stupor, it's MG speaking.

Michael 'engaging and interesting' Gibbon, for Mermaids

We are back to Michael Gibbon KC for final response. He's not saying anything he hasn't said already.

@ickky 😂

Has KM finished their summing up bit then?

Thanks everyone

😂

yes @FriendofJoanne

Consider all matters, tribunal in good position to determine facts. This is a matter where there is likelihood of appeal

They're coming after you next Arabella - all those donations you diverted to Hvaldimir put you on their radar...

Surely this is why there should have been a preliminary case to decide on standing?

Thankyou everyone, your witty commentary is appreciated, even if it isn’t trendy! Does anyone know when there will be a decision?

I didn't like the one yesterday TastefulRainbowUnicorn

yes! And it seemed to me like that question resulted from thinking along similar lines to this question. As if serving same sex attracted people isn’t a sufficient charitable aim, you have to also include the heterosexual trans.

Is he saying: if Mermaids fall on standing, ie they should never have brought the case in the first place, nothing will be properly resolved, ...

so don't do that please?

IS from CC now but can't hear.

He's saying that irrespective of what the tribunal decide on standing, they should also provide full reasoning on the substantive issue of whether LGBA has charitable Articles.

He's saying that if the case fails on standing the tribunal should still rule on the rest of the case in case there is an appeal. KM, I think, argued that if it fails on standing that should be the end of it.

<falls into daydream of running away to escape and getting to the coast and meeting Hvaldimir and riding off on the back of a white whale over the sea into the sunset-lit frothy-tipped waves>

<blinks>

What?

Is it MG's tactic to put everyone in a catatonic trance and make hypnotic implanted suggestions?!

RESIST, EVERYONE!

I stand corrected. KM saying they should rule on the lot.
CC saying it should stop if the case fails on standing.

Everyone wants to avoid an appeal

IS provided a good argument that if the tribunal decide Mermaids don't have standing then they should stop there. It would leave the CC in the mess of legal matters concluded leaving the registration of LGBA as being in limbo.

IS if aspects point in different directions that would cause problems for CC

All done. Judgment reserved.

Thanks all so much for the commentary

And the chicken crossing the road joke