Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

[nauticant]

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

Still in lobby

Must say, these proceedings are very tardy, had none of that with Judge Goodman!

AR has gone to upload electronic version of something.

27 still in lobby

She has just arrived, embarrassingly there wasn't a chair for her....

This is really frustrating. I waited an hour yesterday and was then timed out, then got in - today I logged in at 9.37 and am still waiting in the lobby. 😕

Clerk letting more in now.

KM starts her submissions.

The most important issue: what is the purpose of LGBA as established, then, is there public benefit, then are there detriments?

Finally in.

KM: Mermaids are not saying that there is a "sham" in LGBA having sought to be registered.

Having missed the set-up, I thought for some reason KM had a dollhouse on her desk.

If Mermaids say there's no "sham" then it's not open to them to argue that the Articles do not declare honestly the real stated objects of LGBA.

I'm still waiting

Can't have it both ways, either they are a sham or they aren't. Basically, you can't be a little bit deceptive. Good point I thought.

I had to come out and go in on another browser before I got in

Only 15 waiting to get in now

In!

Why didn't the Clerk start letting people in earlier? 🤷🏻‍♀️ They knew this was an issue yesterday, after all.

MG had the task of making the tribunal accept things which are complicated and difficult. KM is offering the tribunal a very straightforward and simple set of arguments to accept.

This has nothing to do with abilities, I'm sure KM would also have struggled with Mermaids' case.

KM putting forward another "let's be straightforward" argument, what LGBA was established to do relate to the Articles at the time of application and shouldn't be interpreted according to what has been going on since. This really does make sense, to find otherwise would open cans of worms all over.

More tech issues!!!

One of the authorities is about a will and what was meant by "Godly persons".

KM: You should only look beyond the terms of the document, eg Articles of Association, when there is an ambiguity.

This is all very detailed stuff about interpretation of terms used in specific legal documents.

Schrodingers sham.

I have come to the conclusion that anyone associated with MM have poor understanding of what words mean.

KM says activities after charity is established, is a matter for CC to look at. It does not mean that the charitable status no longer applies.