The police

[BlackForestCake]

I was just thinking that the GC analysis is the only one that can explain the behaviour of police forces up and down the country.

The liberal position is “It’s awful that the police are institutionally racist and misogynist, but it’s great that they stand up for LGBTQ+ people!”

No. The promotion of trans ideology is part of the misogyny.

Hah ! They didn't even caution the poor sod !

They didn't know what s127 was

They told him he had committed a crime .

Absolutely embarrassing. This is my point . Cops with no service , no experience, think they can blag their way through a completely fictional crime .

I can't defend this in any way . It's appalling.

This is what's happening because the recruitment drive is after young graduates who know nothing .

Wearing a uniform isn't enough .awful .

stillvicarinatutu
I agree. It is a combination of poor training and a generation soaked in a particular ideology. The College of Policing is part of the problem and many forces are actually encouraging people to make complaints of non crimes. It's no wonder the police can't cope.

When I joined training was 17 weeks .

Now it's 14 .

I am a prolific note maker and I still use my "bibles" to this day - all my training notes .

Sometimes you do forget a particular act or section - but the answer isn't make one up and pretend you look like you know what you're doing !
It's an embarrassment to the job . And this is what upsets me because there are really really good officers out there , with time in the job , common sense , honesty , integrity , and this just gives everyone a bad name .

I do still pride myself on being good at my job . If I don't know the answer I do t make it up - I go and research, read my bibles , look on PNLD for points to prove and legal definitions.

I think sometimes inexperienced officers think the fact they are wearing a uniform carries authority when it actually just makes us all a laughing stock .

It actually makes me sad and angry.

I think policing is going to rats .

I was talking to an ex CID detective today .

He said his old dept is staffed by cops who haven't even passed their TI - this means one of the districts busiest CID depts doesn't have one single detective constable among them . The acting DS has left 3 times and keeps bouncing back on different policing programs. Openly says hates the job and is now running CID . With very little experience. So that's the sept that's dealing with rapes , attempted murder , GBH , manslaughter.

Our murder team have all the funding. Which is great - but I would wager that there are considerably more serious assaults , rapes , etc than murders.
And no one is listening to us - us that have the years in , the experience, the days giving evidence in court .

I got asked to rattle off a statement the other day on a subject I had absolutely no knowledge of. I said no ! Because when I'm in court being cross examined- are they gonna pop up
And say "sorry - we told her to do it ?" No they bloody well aren't .
But I am now adept at ever so politely saying "no" .
That's age and experience. And not being afraid to say nope .

Now there's is a direct entry program for inspectors and above - so they can come in at a high rank with absolutely no prior experience or knowledge of policing . They're full of great ideas that just reinvent the wheel . All been done before .
Always hailed like something amazing radical and new
Always fails at some point .

Tbh - I can't wait to retire .

When I was working for the police, late 70s, 80s and into the 90s, the big fear was a complaint. Forces had a department to deal with complaints, like Line of Duty, although they had different names, do they still have that?

I had to be interviewed once as a released prisoner came to collect his property. When I got his property bag a box of matches was missing. He complained and I was investigated, very stern DI interviewed me. I mean honestly if I'd known they were missing I'd have bought him a box.

Is the idea of "discipline" not the same anymore?

My husband joined before radios, he always says you really had to think on your feet if you were out alone for 8 hrs on night shift with no easy way of calling back up, well he did have a whistle.

Police complaints and discipline still exist .

Now night shifts are 10 hours.

Nights are when I've come unstuck before now - once at a domestic. Had to press emergency button and pava an angry man

Once at another domestic and pava an angry man alone with nearest back up 10 miles away

Once I got shot at .

Nights seem to being out the worst .

I e had more complaints since being in control room than when I was on shift .

Now people think if they wail that it's not fair it will change an outcome .
Not if you've done the job correctly in the first place it won't .

I get sick of spurious complaints because I wi too as someone wants - that's because I look at the letter of the law and if no offence - I tell them . That they THINK it should be is fairly irrelevant. But the culture has changed and people do think if they complain they'll get they're own way .
Complaints hold no fear for me . It's usually a disgruntled complainant that didn't get what they wanted . I have the law on my side because I stick to it ! The letter of the law .
The number of times I've had to tell people that being insulted or offended isn't a criminal offence ......

That's the crux of the issue - people going well I'm offended so it MUST be a crime .

Nah . It's not . Tweeting a meme ? Speaking your opinion? Not a crime . But I think some people have trouble accepting that .

Well not unless it's grossly offensive, a threat , indecent or known to be untrue .

That's the definition of mal comms .

Oh - and it has to be directed at a person .
So a generic tweet - with an opinion- would never ever stand up in court .

Complaints held fear for everyone in my day.

Things have changed. Police don't have the respect they used to and I would wager back in the day if a complaint was made it would be something to investigate.

Now people complain because they're issue is t a crime . They think complaining will
Change that . One of my colleagues lives has been totally ruined by a malicious spurious complaint and he's been totally exonerated but he spent 2 years suspended and says he will never come back . He was criminally investigated for something he did not do
And it's been proven to be a case of mistaken identity by a child with special needs . But his career lies in tatters . He will never ever trust the police again . And he was a bloody good Bobby . Complaints when warranted- absolutely. But things are very different now from the 70s 80s and 90s . In some ways better regulated.

I'm not sure the investigation of a missing box of 4 or 5 year old matches, half empty apparently, was worth a DI and DS investigating. In my experience every complain was taken seriously.

BWV has helped a lot with spurious complaints as your encounter with people is captured and can be re-played. So, your disgruntled complainant wanting to make a complaint of they way you dealt with them is all recorded.

Same in custody - so the box of missing matches can be traced or shown that it was nothing to do with the officer if they have gone missing.

Not sure if everyone saw this from yesterday?

"Policing Minister has tonight confirmed that Chief Constables have been ordered to stop recording NCHIs following Miller v College of Policing. That is what you call effective activism. Well done everyone."

twitter.com/WeAreFairCop/status/1593354391536427008?t=UkYB4JAlDGH77_KxU75NFA&s=19

Imnobody4
This is where its a grey area in policing. Please don't see this as me defending anyone or talking down to people - I'm just putting another view point across.

Mal comms - Offence of sending letters etc. with intent to cause distress or anxiety.
Any person who sends to another person a letter, electronic communication or article of any description which conveys a message which is indecent or grossly offensive.
UK Public General Acts1988 c. 27 Section 1

So, does a swastika fall into the 'grossly offensive' category?

If its was sent to say Simon Wiesenthal's family or Anne Frank's family for example, would it be seen as grossly offensive? Does it depend who its sent to or what it is that is being sent?

In this case - does the reporting person believe it was sent purposefully for them to see it. And if so, does it cause this person anxiety, alarm, distress?

If the reporting person says they believe it does - then you have the offence of mal comms made out in theory, based on the above definition. Has the reporting person said anything else on the call - perhaps maliciously - 'they have sent me a load of other grossly offensive things too in the past'

So, at that point what does the call taker do - are they in a position to tell the reporting person that in the call taker's opinion, its not offensive and you should not be getting stressed over it - goodbye and end the call.

Or would they see it as an offence of mal comms is made out on the call, so it will need investigating further?

Or, do we judge the reporting person is a proven liar by the number of previous calls, their past criminal record, or their past number of reports that have not resulted in a prosecution. Or do we take it on a case-by-case basis?

For what its worth - if that had been dispatched to me - I would have tried to conclude this with words of advice only to the reporting person, that its a free world and everyone can have a voice etc etc.

Even if there was something more to it and i visited the potential suspect - there would be no need to arrest and i would have gone along the lines of a voluntary interview at his home address. If he refused the voluntary interview, you can proceed with out it if need be, no arrest required.

As stillvicarinatutu has said, there are lots of staff who are not as experienced as others - and whilst they have powers in law to do what they did - you sometimes have to think that there are a number of different ways to deal with things that are a lot easier for everyone concerned.

Great - less work for us

But, Whatsapp groups like the ones Couzens cronies were involved with can go unrestricted then in theory? So long as no crime occurs within them.

Surely that would be an HR issue? The police will.have standards of conduct.

But, Whatsapp groups like the ones Couzens cronies were involved with can go unrestricted then in theory?

Has there been one single example ever of a man having a NCHI recorded against him for participating in a misogynistic group chat? How could there be, when crimes motivated by hatred of women aren’t counted as hate crimes?

What is the point in even mentioning this red herring?

This is my argument - that intelligence on serving officers should be used against them. So, posts on Whatsapp groups like this.

For example - if officers have created a Whatsapp group which is misogynistic in its content, this should be used against them and they should be dismissed.

If they are now not going to record such incidents, then this can go unchecked, in theory, as they have done nothing wrong by posting in the group.

And I agree - it goes against the standards of conduct - but in theory, nothing will get recorded against them so it will go unchecked.

That's great news.
But in the interests of eternal vigilance, Harry said at one point the police were starting to use malicious communications - Offence of sending letters etc. with intent to cause distress or anxiety. (UK Public General Acts1988 c. 27 Section 1) to intimidate and harass people as in the flag meme.

We need to keep the pressure up to make the police accountable when they harass people for exercising their freedom of speech.

Felix125
These are 2 completely separate issues. Supervision of police conduct has nothing to do with NCHIs.

Felix knows this but has his own agenda. Oh, look a squirrel.

No - its the same - non crime hate incidents will not be recorded.
So officers involved in such Whatsapp groups outside of work will not be recorded if they are flagged up by people