Response from health care service providers "assigned at birth"

[FernlovingNodosaur]

Can you please give your thoughts on this matter and if your smart wording/thinking could add anything to my response letter.

I complained via email because I very recently received an unsolicited advert from my major health care provider see below for company. About a serious sex based disease yet the advert used assigned at birth manta.

Their response email below:

Dear Ms

I'm emailing you in response to your complain on Wednesday 2nd November regarding your unhappiness that we make reference to the term "assigned at birth" rather than classifying a specific gender.
I apologise if it has caused you any offence - it is not the service that Babylon aim to deliver.
Our marketing team are using the term "assigned at birth" to cause minimal offence to our many patients and we will be continuing to use this term. Unfortunately, we can't adapt marketing emails individually to each person's gender and have to use a neutral term.
If you have any further queries, please let me know.
Cheers,
Clinical Operations Team Leader.
**

On the irony.

the scientific consensus is that people do have a gender indentity in the sense of an inner feeling of what sex/gender they are.

citations please

I've posted two lengthy articles on this thread explaining how clinical practice when assigning sex to intersex children has developed due to an increased understanding of gender identity.

I note without comment that although ppl with DSD have said repeatedly that 1. Intersex is an offensive term and they prefer DSD and 2. Trans issues are completely separate and they are tired of being used as a gotcha, the TRA who pop up on here continually ignore these requests.

livvy Please do not politicise women's medical conditions to suit your political agenda.

You have posted an article that quotes Fausto-Sterling. That 1.7% has been explained by medical doctors and development biologist with specialities in this field as including around 1.5% of females with LOCAH. That also includes females with PCOS.

You are on a board with a large majority of female posters. It is truly offensive to utilise women's medical conditions in any way to achieve whatever political points you think you are achieving here.

You have not posted a peer reviewed study. And I doubt that article is peer reviewed considering the 1.7% used.

This figure has been politicised because it over inflates the proportion of people with differences in sex development for the propping up of gender identity.

How weird that you choose to use women's medical issues in this way. Rather like dismissing violence against women because you personally disagree with what the women have to say.

So, to repeat.

We have had enough people with differences of sex development post on this board to tell posters to stop using their bodies as a political tool. We have also had enough women with PCOS and other medical conditions say exactly the same.

If you cannot explain your points in any other way, perhaps your points are irrelevant and very weak.

We have had enough people with differences of sex development post on this board to tell posters to stop using their bodies as a political tool. We have also had enough women with PCOS and other medical conditions say exactly the same.

This is an entire thread complaining about a healthcare provider using intersex inclusive laguage so please don't tell me what I can and can't post.

I merely corrected the claim that doctors use chromosone testing to assign sex, they don't, they use predicted gender identity. You might not like that but it happens to be true.

And those interested in hearing internet voices on this might be interested in this short piece: isna.org/assignment_delayed/

"Children born with intersex conditions are given gender assignments as boys or girls shortly after birth. Gender assignment is accomplished the same way for all children, whether they have an intersex condition or not: by figuring out which gender identity the child is most likely to feel as she or he grows up, and assigning that gender.

"Sometimes it can take a few days or even a few weeks for the doctors to figure out which gender assignment (boy or girl) to recommend. There’s also a small but real possibility that the doctors will recommend a gender assignment different than the one the child will later express. This means that it is possible that the doctors will recommend your baby be assigned as a girl, but as your child grows up, it will be clear that he really feels and acts like a boy, or vice versa. (Doctors are not infallible fortune tellers of gender.)"

Leaving aside the fact that not everyone agrees that CAH is a DSD, I female baby with CAH is completely female with female internal sexual organs. She may have atypical external genitalia, such as an enlarged clitoris and fused labia which may resemble a penis and testicles. It is not however a penis and testicles and any surgery to eg separate the labia will absolutely not be "removing a little boy's penis".

The language used has nothing to do with including people with DSDs, it's entirely to do with assuaging the gender identity lobby.

Incidentally, from the Great Ormond Street website on CAH

If a baby is born with ambiguous genitalia, blood tests are usually used to determine genetic gender.

I can only assume they used gender in this context as a the old style synonym for sex.

Gender assignment is accomplished the same way for all children, whether they have an intersex condition or not: by figuring out which gender identity the child is most likely to feel as she or he grows up, and assigning that gender.

Well that's a load of old cobblers to start with.

I'd be interested to know what criteria are used in predicting the likely choice of "gender". But, anyway, this isn't relevant for the vast majority of babies, whose sex is obvious.

Gender assignment is accomplished the same way for all children, whether they have an intersex condition or not: by figuring out which gender identity the child is most likely to feel as she or he grows up, and assigning that gender.

What utter rubbish.

I have two children and at no point did anyone "figure out what gender identity the child was most likely to feel" or "assign a gender".

How do you imagine this is done, and by whom?

Could you please stop posting articles and instead post peer review papers and studies?

You are beginning to spread misinformation.

This article DOES NOT do what you think it does. Again. You have blundered into a thread and thought that you actually know better than a medical practitioner. How do you know that Babdoc doesn't have a paediatrician speciality?

Either way, this is yet another article about surgeries. I think probably many of the posters on this board have become familiar, because of the posters with differences of sex development, with the fight against surgery for these people. Unless they have life-threatening issues. An example is internal testes in some male patients may cause life-threatening health situations, even at a early age.

You are using articles about surgeries to bolster your 'predicted gender' term.

Using modern medicine, it is possible to test and observe a child and categorise this child's sex.

Do you understand that most differences of sex development are only found in one or the other sex?

According to our posters with these conditions, these conditions actually better support that sex is BINARY rather than this spectrum theory that has erroneously been pushed.

Just stop.

I merely corrected the claim that doctors use chromosone testing to assign sex, they don't, they use predicted gender identity. You might not like that but it happens to be true.

Chromosome testing IS part of the testing used for identifying sex.

they use predicted gender identity

No they don't.

And livvy do you think that 'gender identity' could be predicted, that it would be used in diagnosis of gender dysphoria?

Do you think that if 'gender identity' could be predicted, it would be used as a means to get a GRC?

Do you think that if 'gender identity' could be predicted, that there would be better treatments available?

You are talking bollocks. AGAIN.

Tell you what. Come back with 'predicted gender identity' studies (peer reviewed and capable of being robustly repeated) and maybe posters and readers on this thread will think you have any credibility.

This is an entire thread complaining about a healthcare provider using intersex inclusive laguage so please don't tell me what I can and can't post.

If you actually read the thread, you would understand that term 'assigned at birth' is being wrongly used for medical communications.

So, in fact you ARE posting dangerous misinformation through this continued narrative you have doubled down.

Maybe you are unaware that conditions effect the two sexes and that some conditions are NOT found in both sexes, just one.

If a person is 'assigned at birth' is given the wrong information or misses the information because they read the communication directed to people 'assigned at birth' they are at increased risk.

If a person has been assigned as a female at birth, as in Caster Semenya, and reads information about female related conditions or just female related result ranges etc, but that information has been worded 'assigned female at birth' instead of female people, it could cause loss of life.

That is the effect of the misinformation you are spreading on this thread. And many, many people will be reading this over the next few years and see your misinformation.

I knew my children’s sex before their birth. And it may surprise you that I am hardly unusual in this. My brother even knew their child’s chromosomes before they were born.

Human babies are sexed in exactly the same way a baby cows/sheep/pigs - by looking at their genitalia. Or do you think farmers speculate on the gender identity of their livestock when deciding whether to send them to market?

Do you read these links livvy? I mean read them with an understanding that using today's medicine it is possible to test enough to work out what SEX the child is.

Therefore, when you read this, does it not strike you that this is a North American site and uses 'gender' instead of 'sex'.

"Our baby was born with a kind of variation in sex development that happens more often than you hear about. Our doctors aren’t quite sure yet in which gender we should raise the baby. They’re doing a series of tests to figure this out. We expect to have a recommendation from them within a few days, and then we’ll send out the birth announcement with the baby’s gender and the name we’ve chosen. Of course, as is true with any child, the various tests the doctors are doing are not going to tell us for sure who she or he will turn out to be. We’re going to discover that together. We appreciate your love and support and we’re looking forward to introducing you to our little one in person soon."

This paragraph is all about testing for SEX.

I repeat. There is NO TEST FOR GENDER!!!!!

Otherwise, GRC diagnosis and gender dysphoria treatment would be already accurate, reliable and non-controversial.

Maybe you are unaware that conditions effect the two sexes and that some conditions are NOT found in both sexes, just one.

effect the two sexes differently sorry

Otherwise, GRC diagnosis and gender dysphoria treatment would be already accurate, reliable and non-controversial.

Exactly, if doctors could accurately figure out what gender identity a baby would have after merely a couple of weeks of observation of said baby then surely they could just do a quick switcheroo and bingo a matching pair of sex and gender identity - no need for anyone to be trans and change their bodies or lives in the future. Amazing.

These doctors must truly have some other worldly power if they can see from a mere few weeks of observation what this mythical, internal, indefinable, elusive gender identity is in a baby. Truly marvellous.

No need for sonographers either after all the sex of the baby determined at conception and observed in utero will be a waste of time, the doctor will just figure out which gender identity the child is most likely to feel as she or he grows up. This is ground breaking stuff.

Either way, this is yet another article about surgeries. I think probably many of the posters on this board have become familiar, because of the posters with differences of sex development, with the fight against surgery for these people.

But if you can claim you can establish what sex they are simply due to their chromosones then why wouldn't you support surgery if the outcome would be more functional genitals which appear more inline the with the sex you've assigned them? After all if they decide their gender identity is different to that sex you can explain to them that that's all nonsense and their gender identity doesn't exist. I'm sure they'll be happy with that once you've explained it. I'm sure all someone like Castor Semanya needs is for a gender critical person to sit down with her and explain she's really a man and he'll understand and get on with life happily in the male sex role relieved to be free of his delusions.

Doctors assigning a baby's gender identity

I wonder when that's covered in medical school. I'm seeing the Doctor on Monday, I'll have to ask him what mine is, I seem to have misplaced it.

Castor Semanya is male, they know they are male, the DSD they have is only found in the male sex. As for gender identity (although there is no such thing you obviously believe in it) if you knew anything about Castor Semanya's behaviour from childhood you would assign them male, but you clearly don't know anything and are just scraping around desperately for another gotcha - you've failed yet again.

Castor Semanya is male, they know they are male, the DSD they have is only found in the male sex.

What a strange old world. We're constantly hearing from gender critical people that women don't have a penises, but now it appears a man can have a vagina.

livvy how do you know what CS genitals look like?

That bits worrying me as well…

I had to Google it, but Castor has a pseudovaginal perineoscrotal hypospadias, or a blind perineal pouch. Perhaps that looks like a vagina to the ignorant. So, no more a vagina that whatever it is that a minority of tw have constructed.

icake

im sorry i think i need to defer to the expert on this one…

so, livvy spill…