Gender stereotypes

[WandaWomblesaurus]

Along with the "is this model a woman or man?" And "Is this woman a woman if she has short hair" bathroom sketch, gender stereotypes work for no one.

To assume that GC people care about stereotypes is way off though and it's being used by TRAs as a gotcha.

Interesting how this stuff comes round full circle.

I think it is the gender ideologues that are seeking to reinforce gender stereotypes, not GC people for sure. Didn’t Susie Green put her child on the trans pathway because he played with ‘girls toys’ and her husband thought he might turn out gay? It all seems very regressive and constricting to me. Most GC people are of the mindset boys and girls can play with or wear whatever they like abs do whichever jobs they like but sex is immutable.

Gender bending was something that many of us grew up with in so much music and media.

One aspect that is so puzzling is how literal everything has become. Short hair = man.

That wouldn't be a GC approach in my mind.

Eddie Izzard putting on a dress doesn't make Eddie a woman. There's nothing wrong with Eddie wearing a dress.

Approaching a woman with short hair in a bathroom isn't GC. Why is it being framed as gender critical?

Do TRAs think that gender critical means we want to uphold gender stereotypes?

'Gender critical' precisely means being critical of gender stereotypes. The term was much used here before notions of 'gender identity' came to the fore. Hence a thread here resulting in Let Toys be Toys.

I think they think that yes. If you read some ‘coming out’ accounts for TW especially its all about how they liked pink, and girls toys etc. despite the fact many girls hate pink and would rather play with toys that regressive stereotypes have assigned as boys toys. Said TW also seem to have a penchant for the type of clothes and shoes most women would not usually wear as we’re too busy holding down jobs, raising families and just generally getting on with life.

Maybe we need to make this more explicit? 'Gender stereotype critical'.

“Gender bending” was so normal in music etc several decades ago, but Adam Ant, Boy George et al never claimed to be women. Wasn’t it David Bowie who once retorted in an interview that no, he wasn’t wearing “women’s clothes and shoes”, they were “just clothes”?

Perhaps this is partly why gender ideology is so perplexing, enraging and wearying for those of us who grew up with these norms.

I've wondered about this - I think that people genuinely don't understand what Gender Critical actually means.

High heels, pink and make up were originally thought of as masculine. It all boils down to a male view of what a woman is.

Exactly. Look at louis 13 of France. Makeup, long hair, pink, jewellery, heels. Boys wore dresses until they were about 3. No one seems to be claiming he was actually a transwoman. But Joan of Arc must have been a man because short hair, mens clothes, led an army 🙄🙄🙄🙄. And they can’t see how sexist and regressive this is. I thought the whole ‘gender ideology’ was designed to get rid if this bullshit

Wasn’t it David Bowie who once retorted in an interview that no, he wasn’t wearing “women’s clothes and shoes”, they were “just clothes”? Izzard used to say that too. Aah those were the days. Can't believe I actually spent good money on tickets to see Izzard in his pre "girl-mode/boy mode" days. And Izzards "modes" are entirely hackneyed old stereotypes of what a woman should look like. No longer are they "just clothes", they're "women's" clothes. How very progressive - not.

Oh yes TRA repeatedly say that GC are all about reinforcing gender stereotypes (whilst wearing make up, flicking their hair &, wearing a dress).

it’s been explained a gazillion times that GC are fine with men & women wearing & doing whatever they want. Really crack on. However no amount of wearing pink & titling your head to one side makes you a woman, you’re just a gender non confirming man

I don’t know if TRA are wilfully obtuse or genuinely stupid. Either way I don’t care anymore. I’m not here to convince TRA, they’ll never change, I’m here for the lurkers

The thing is, in gender ideology woman=feminine and man=masculine. So when someone says 'all female adults are women' it's interpreted as 'all female people must be feminine'. That's how you arrive at the conclusion that gender critical thought is reinforcing stereotypes.

Instead of hearing 'girls grow up to be women', they hear 'girls must grow up to be feminine' and obviously that's sexist because girls can be masculine but in gender ideology that's expressed as girl's can become men.

Bowie said it years before EI did.

Why all the pearl clutching on here when men 'wear what they want'?

Why all the frothing at the mouth on here of pictures of masculine looking female athletes/models/criminals/whatever then? That that turn out to be actual females.

Why all the pearl clutching on here when men 'wear what they want'?

Most posters - the ones who actually are 'gender critical' - don't do any such thing. Not for just 'wearing what they want'. I mean, on this thread no one is criticising the 'gender benders' of yore like Bowie for their appearance, are they?

What's with the sexist jibe 'pearl clutching'?

I think that @JamesBuckyBarnes is in the “wilfully obtuse” camp.

not really a thing here

can you point to a thread where this opinion is stated and not challenged?

I genuinely think the world would be a happier place if it was more socially acceptable for men to have 30 pairs of sparkly shoes (or whatever). I'd certainly be pretty fucking depressed if I had to dress like a gender conforming man in the UK

It's a well-known saying, why so rude? I see comments on here all the time complaining about what men are wearing

Why so rude?

what, on the feminism board? and left unchallenged? examples please

Can't see any pearl clutching on this thread.

John Mclean: He is THE man, back on youtube www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4666164-john-mclean-he-is-the-man-back-on-youtube

@BernardBlacksMolluscs any Drag Queen Story Time thread for a start - the last one I saw some US Mom dressing up in the same outfit to convey how unacceptable it all was - she was wearing a normal black leotard I'd hate to see her face when she sees what the swim club and cheerleader squad wear

Where did I say it was on this thread?

Oh dear