Struggling with the misogyny of female TRAs

[TheirEminence]

There is something I don’t understand and I hope MN can help. What is the general psychological profile of female people (trans-masculine, non-binary, women identify as ‘cis’) who are rabid TRAs? Not just going along with things ‘to be kind’ but the true believers with total ideological commitment?

I know we discuss TW a lot on this forum and what we perceive as their male entitlement and often complete lack of understanding for the female condition but what drives female TRAs? There is a strong desire to punish, and a taste for persecution and hunting for apostates, sometimes fairly obvious self-promotion. Sometimes it seems to be strong investment in one’s own or a close relative’s transition.

What is the psychology of this, is it specific to female people - or is this a daft question?

Internaised misogyny, trying to identify out of the 'victim' class, doing it for the male cookies.

There are probably other reasons.

If you look back through history there have always been people who get carried away on the religious zealotry and competitive religious virtue signalling as part of their self esteem and means of keeping up with the Joneses. Women have been more vulnerable to this as their sense of self esteem unfortunately still is often very reliant on competition with other women and being the provider to males, the mummy figure to males or being the good girl in with the males. Two minutes on AIBU on the MiL threads demonstrates a whole lot of this, from the conversations about the women who want their power from dominating the family and not losing the importance of the mummy provider role as their children have partners, to the inevitable women who turn up on thread to berate the OP for not being a doormat and 'not liking' the woman who is treating her so horribly.

Someone brilliant here posted this article a month or so back which I found highly illuminating on how people get sucked into this way of thinking:

virginiasroom.co.uk/2022/01/sex-denialism-collective-insanity-or-religion/

I was thinking about this recently in the context of those two young women screaming about 'utter filth' to the bloke with the baby at the meet up the other week.

In their case, it honestly came across that they were a bit brainwashed, there isn't really any other way to describe it.

Maybe they want to be part of the "cool crowd"?

I think naivety is a major part of it. If their experience is limited to their nice trans identifying friends, they don't see the viewpoint of the abuse victim saying they need separate facilties.

The person who was the single complainant in the Social Worker's case is who springs to mind for me. Rachel Meade's life was upended on the basis of that one complaint. That's about as vicious as it gets.

I'm guessing there are as many reasons as there are people. Enlightenment and speaking the truth comes at a cost, and for some that would be their entire social circle denouncing them. Some are just stupid, and some are hoping if they go along with it, they'll avoid being punished for refusing to worship at the altar.

Me too - but I am particularly struck by the mothers who enthusiastically trans their children (and the teachers and doctors who enable it).

I suspect the root of both phenomena is the same?

It’s making it harder and harder to see this issue as feminist one, as opposed to a material reality v ideological purity one.

Lack of life experience. Living in a protected bubble. Only prepared to listen to one point of view.

Crucially with young women these days, never having to fight for their rights in the first place, not understanding what it was like without them.

I wonder how many know that rape in marriage was not illegal in the UK until 1992

Probably going to get deleted for this but...very recently went to a music event with teen DS. It was, as it turns out, featuring several trans performers (that's a whole other thread). There were a lot of trans/gender confused teens in the audience with their mums. You needed an adult to go if under 16 which is why i was there. By teens I mean school age. Not many older than late teens. My DS already felt super awkward as it's not really his thing. The performer was more suitable for a gay bar than an event aimed at 14-20year olds (in my opinion - and I've not led a sheltered life by any means!). So that in itself was concerning. It felt very promo/campaigning rather than music
When lead trans performer was onstage 'they' (they were a bearded man in a sparkly jumper so not a 'she' and had a male name but said they were female) they did a big long speech about trans rights. The 'mums' almost universally cheered and shouted and clapped in OTT way it was embarrassing. Their kids all looked super awkward and sad.. so in my opinion this was entirely to keep in and onside with their kids and 'look cool' be supportive..to troubled dc you are losing grip on. I guess it snowballs from there. All the middle aged TRA women I've seen have a kid involved in this in some way.
I told my dc on way home 'I don't care if you hate me and rebel but there's no way I'm gonna let you go down that route and I'll be staging an intervention if you do.. by all means wear what you like, go out with who you like and call yourself what you like but that's where it ends!' They were pretty happy with that. Boundaries are needed in life and joining your dc when they cross them helps no one. I honestly think some middle aged women like the reflected 'cool' this gives them. It's actually really sad.

The young ones don't want to speak their own mind. Perhaps a bit boring and looking for a cause to latch onto...rather than something worth fighting for because some of life's issues are too hard to fix- this has the possibility of being won.
I always do wonder if these kind of issues are concocted to deliberately distract us from the really important issues. Turn women against each other and so on.. worth considering??

I know of a lesbian TRA who suffered homophobic abuse from straight women in the past. Nowadays, she really has it in for GC women (out of a sense of LGBT solidarity, perhaps?) She doesn’t like GC men either, but she spends far more time criticising GC women.

Also, I’m guessing that some TRAs publicly expressed “live and let live” statements without understanding the issues, then couldn’t bring themselves to climb down. I only expressed such opinions anonymously on here, and I still found it difficult to accept I was mostly wrong.

I don't think assuming it's based in misogyny is helpful and will generally impede understanding them. And for that matter this can also be true of male TRAs.

It's just as reductive as the assumption that transphobia or homophobia lies behind the motives of women who do not accept gender ideology.

ALmost always the place to start with understanding people is to assume that it makes sense to them (which is not to say that it has to be logical, but they at least believe it is,) and also assume that they are probably working from good motives. Of course some people just aren't, but when you have a lot of people caught up in something like this, chances are they think they are doing something true and good.

In my personal experience the true believer types think that gender ideology is science based. If you imagine accepting that idea, and what would logically flow from that, it becomes clearer why they think as they do.

I know someone who's incredibly involved in their female child transitioning. It's full on support, talking about it constantly, always bringing child up in conversation etc. Absolutely no room for any other views. Said child (currently 15) looks miserable as a kid can be but is tearing the family apart, as Dad is not on board and doesn't want child to take any further steps. I guess Mum is being supportive and all, but there's absolutely no room for child to change mind, or reflect or question the direction of travel they've put into motion. Mum is driving and her foot is off the brake, on the understanding that this is what child wants and child will never ever doubt that Mum wants the best for child. It's bloody tragic as I cannot see a happy child - child looks so miserable and hangdog. Surely if it was the right thing to do, child would be euphoric?

Mum is driving and her foot is off the brake, on the understanding that this is what child wants and child will never ever doubt that Mum wants the best for child. It's bloody tragic as I cannot see a happy child - child looks so miserable and hangdog. Surely if it was the right thing to do, child would be euphoric?

So there's something else making the mother continue with this, other than to make the child happy. What is that? There's an obvious answer, of course (word beginning with 'M' that we're not allowed to mention on here).

I know lots of LGB people of all ages who go to things like Trans Pride and so on. I wouldn't say they were activists but they're definitely passively involved. I honestly think they just haven't thought it through. They don't give much thought to rape crisis centres and prisons and so on anyway. They dont care doesnt impact them. Lots of people straight or otherwise just aren't very clued up or even care about political issues. Plenty are not socialists or don't to give to charity. There are even many LGB people who know little about gay rights movement.
It's also pretty much impossible to broach this subject with them as you'd honestly not know what the reaction would be. Everyone at my place of work assumes I'm very pro trans etc just because I'm not straight. I know this because they fall over themselves to tell me about how gender inclusive they are and measures being put in etc. Its depressing!

@OldCrone
Honestly its a pass to look 'cool' or perhaps they had stifled childhood and strict parents and they're 'down with their kids'
I'd like to know if any parents of ethnic minority kids go down this route because I've only seen white middle aged women doing it, the ones who think they're so alternative and open and friends to their kids. (Yes the teens always look bloody miserable!)

They would rather be an attacker than attacked?

@Changemyname1000x re ethnic minorities - in some Asian communities, it is very unacceptable for a child to be gay. Some families would rather support their child as trans than gay, so yes, some ethnic minorities are involved. Probably not too vocal about it though

Many of these people would've attached themselves to other causes, and once this trend passes they will do so again.

A lot of it is virtue signalling and to boost your social media profile. They think there is a lot of social credit to be had.

That's interesting @waterwitch not seen any evidence of the trans issue there (did know about the hidden LGB aspect).

I've had to unfriend on SM a few acquaintances who've shared stuff about crowdfunding for mastectomy. This was a few years ago now so not sure if I've managed to purge these types or its not as common now to crowdfund. But honestly what goes through the mind of a 50 year old woman supporting a 19 year olds crowd funder for mastectomy. I stand by my claim that they're trying to appear with it/cool/ontrend/virtue signalling as they have kids that age. Its quite frankly a bit thick!

It always seems to be because they know someone

ex friend of mine - huuuge TRA and sadly in a very influential position is a middle aged lesbian on a long term relationship & been friends with several TW for years. Absolutely refuses to believe that there are any downsides to letting TW in all womens spaces

another friend has a trans sibling and is very vocal in support of trans rights & slags off JKR all the time. I don’t for one moment believe she thinks her MtF really is a woman like her but she just can’t admit that to anyone. it’s really sad. I think Siblings really struggle

excellent article thank you

My conclusion is that critical thinking isn't as widespread as you might think. Significant numbers are in the 'so open minded their brains fell out' camp.

They've been told this is the position right thinking people take and they have just taken that at face value with no interrogation whatsoever.