Kemi Badenoch appointed new Minister for Women and Equalities

[Manteiga]

And International Trade Secretary. I'd have preferred to see her as Secretary of State for Education in addition to Minister for Women and Equalities, but this is good news.

twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1584957913059454976

Interestingly Glenn Lowry uses this hypothesis to explain why black men experience more police brutality and urges black parents to instill the need to comply completely with police at the point of any interaction.

He gets a lot of hate for suggesting this.

No - the discussion is about white privilege. I haven't got an answer to the problem of police violence or police racism in the US - have you? I feel that's a derail, if I'm honest.

I'm making these points by way of showing that your example of 'white privilege' isn't really a good example. It's way more complicated that simply asserting that white people have a benefit by virtue of their whiteness. You picked the example of US police, so I ran with that.

I do believe in male privilege. I can observe it

therefore I think it is reasonable to think that white privilege exists, and that I as a white person find it hard to see

I also think it’s of limited use. Being male or white doesn’t make you a bad person, and trying to imply that it does just sows division

and as previous posters have said, a far more reliable indicator of opportunities and outcomes in the UK is class. But the people whose class has brought them opportunities most people would never see don’t really want to talk about that

but people who are upper class still aren’t bad or wrong for the way they were born

our urge to condemn people for things outside their control does seem to be a big part of the problem

I cannot reference it, but I am absolutely certain that there is mountains of anecdotal evidence to back up my "theory" that in general black parents in the US teach their kids lessons about how to deal with the police when they approach you, because of fears of racist treatment, whereas white parents don't teach the same lessons because they don;t have the same fears.

A Black Mother Reflects On Giving Her 3 Sons 'The Talk' ... Again And Again

www.npr.org/2020/06/28/882383372/a-black-mother-reflects-on-giving-her-3-sons-the-talk-again-and-again

I don't believe that there is the same equivalent white phenomena.

In an ideal world no black or white parent would give their kids "the talk." In the real world I suspect the problem might be that only black kids get it.

Yes - my point was about victim blaming, to the pp saying that white people got killed because of their entitlement, whereas black people were killed because of police brutality.

Actually, now I think about it, were you saying that it's their 'white privilege' that gets white people killed @YouSirNeighMmmm ? Again, this seems like not much of a privilege...

In an ideal world no black or white parent would give their kids "the talk." In the real world I suspect the problem might be that only black kids get it.

I'm sure that's true. But it's got nothing to do with the discussion we were having or the point I was making.

I believe that white privilege exists. It is a thing that white people have.

I see no contradiction between saying "that woman has white privilege" and "that woman overall has very little privilege". I am increasingly coming to the view that in the real world white privilege is less important than I previously thought, and in terms of debate and policy change the focus should be on economic privilege / class privilege which is MUCH MUCH more important. I am increasingly coming to the view that I will be very careful in future before bringing up the concept because it is unlikely to be part of a constructive conversation.

Yeah

the way I look at it is if a black person and a white person are in identical situations, who will have more opportunities and better outcomes? I would argue the white person would because they won’t suffer discrimination on the basis of their skin colour

however in practical terms, when do you ever find people in identical circumstances? So really, it’s not that much use as a concept

Yes, I was positing the theory that white privilege in this context might increase the risk to white people compared to more cautious black people.

100% of people who are killed in horse-riding accidents are people who ride horses. Having access to a horse to ride doesn't seem like much of a privilege!

You have literally just agreed that it's not illegal. Now do you agree you want to stop trans women entering women's loos?

I believe that white privilege exists. It is a thing that white people have.

That's fine. You have a belief that you are unable to substantiate. I respect and believe that you're entitled to hold such a belief. I agree that it's probably not wise to bring it up unless you are able and willing to argue for it.

In which case, it's completely meaningless to call it a privilege! More than meaningless, it's double-speak. In the scenarios you describe, whiteness is a disadvantage, i.e. the very opposite of a privilege.

As you say, this is your belief, which you're entitled to hold. But I'm just pointing out for the benefit of onlookers that this makes zero sense.

You have literally just agreed that it's not illegal. Now do you agree you want to stop trans women entering women's loos?

Do you agree, that although you have admitted most women don't want men, however they identify, in their loos, you still want that to happen?

Man you’re boring

sport, prisons, opportunities ring fenced for women

all you can bore on about is fucking toilets

I can substantiate it to the extent that any idiot can google white privilege and come up with numerous examples which appear convincing. It's not like I can get a text book and get a definitive answer like I could to a question like "is sex binary?" or "can mammals change sex?"

White privilege is not a specialist subject of mine, and I don't go around bring it up very often. This thread has shifted me a bit towards the view that it is rarely worth bringing up when other privileges are so much more important.

I suspect there's a good reason why DadJoke's only focus is women's toilets.

Now do you agree you want to stop trans women entering women's loos?

I want to stop men entering womens and girls spaces. You keep reframing it to force people to see it from your pov. We don’t. They’re male. We have the legal rights to stop them if we wish.

I hate to break it to you, but the worls is nuanced, complex and often contradictory.

Though in this case is is not that nuanced or complex. White privilege is a thing white people benefit from, but it comes with downsides, like most good things!

Do you believe that men should be able to enter women's toilets?

Do you believe that men who claim a trans woman identity but are not trans should be able to enter women's toilets, or do no such people exist?

I will never vote Tory so I'm not delighted by anything that's happening now, but given we're stuck with this government pro tem it's good we don't have a TWAW person in the Women and Equalities post. That's about as far as I can go.'

The discussion has moved on but I agree with this.

And of course, white privilege exists.

Coming from a mixed-race background, this is perfectly clear to me just looking at my own extended family. I have white privilege. I also think that the concept is often poorly defined.

Oh fgs will you pack it in.

You're going round and round and round like a demented yoyo without listening to a word anyone's saying and ranting on repeatedly without engaging in conversation. People have answered you repeatedly in your endless banging out of this very silly question but you've ignored their answers to keep asking, you have been asked questions repeatedly which you're also ignoring, wtf do you want other than to derail?

Meet Katie. Katie identifies as a transwoman. Katie sexually assaulted a 10-year-old girl in a women's toilet in a supermarket.

metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

Now do you agree that your aim is for violent males to have access to women and girls in what should be female only spaces?

Bore off

you add nothing to what is otherwise an interesting discussion

What is the difference between a 'transwoman' and a man who is pretending to be a 'transwoman'?