Kemi Badenoch appointed new Minister for Women and Equalities

[Manteiga]

And International Trade Secretary. I'd have preferred to see her as Secretary of State for Education in addition to Minister for Women and Equalities, but this is good news.

twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1584957913059454976

I believe that a white person will always (so long as racism exists) have the advantage of being white over a black person (in a country like UK or USA).

Why do you think being white is an advantage that you have over others?

White privilege is maybe another way of saying "does not risk suffering the racism that minorities tend to suffer". I cannot see the problem with the term unless you don't understand it or you don;t believe that racism exists.

But white people are subject to racism, too.

Google threw up this definition "inherent advantages possessed by a white person on the basis of their race in a society characterized by racial inequality and injustice."

What "inherent advantages" do white people have? I don't get this at all. Perhaps because I also don't believe we live in a society "characterised by racial inequality and injustice." Again, this is the CRT/woke version of the world, or rather, the West. Yes, there is racism and there are injustices, but that is not the fundamental character of our society. We live in a country where laws and customs stand against racism and where black and Asian people can hold the highest offices of state! To say that we are a country characterised by racial inequality and injustice is to profess belief in the pseudo reality of the woke ideology.

I cannot see the problem with the term unless you don't understand it or you don't believe that racism exists.

So you've never seen it used to shut down debate?
You've never seen it where when somebody disagrees with it as a concept they are called racist for not accepting that they have "white privilege"?

You believe that white people always have privilege and black people are always disadvantaged and this is something that they are born with and cannot escape ever until racism no longer exists? That white people are born racist?

And you honestly cannot see why people may have a problem with it as a concept?

I cannot see the problem with the term unless you don't understand it or you don't believe that racism exists.

So you've never seen it used to shut down debate?
You've never seen it where when somebody disagrees with it as a concept they are called racist for not accepting that they have "white privilege"?

You believe that white people always have privilege and black people are always disadvantaged and this is something that they are born with and cannot escape ever until racism no longer exists? That white people are born racist?

And you honestly cannot see why people may have a problem with it as a concept?

I will read in full later.

See, I don't think that way at all. When I talk abut white privilege I can imagine two 16 year old boys, councils estate, single mum, poverty, etc etc. I can see that the white boy does at least have the advantage that he is not facing day to day racism.

I can see that Sunak and Kwarteng lack white privilege whilst having every single ounce of class privilege going.

"Working class white boys are the group who are struggling most educationally in the UK." Yes, and they have white privilege compared to the comparison group "Working class black boys".

Also are you sure white working class boys are the most struggling group? More struggling than black working class boys? What if you split the black working class boys into african and afro-carribean, does the answer change?

"Having white skin may be an advantage in certain specific situations but what really counts is family, money and class." translates to "white privilege exists but other things not less a stable family and money are much more important" and I agree 100%!

He has done some great stuff with Glenn Loury:

Q1 - because racism still exists.

Q2 - I know. I have suffered racism and I am white. (The racism was pretty trivial, and, ironically, targetted me for something I am not!)

O ops, meant to add that McWhorter's fairly recent book Woke Racism was pretty good too, although I personally preferred some early drafts that he published on his Substack.

I don't understand what you think 'white privilege' is. You seem to equate it to having white skin. But what does that mean? Okay, it means you'll never be called the N word as a term of abuse. But it doesn't mean you'll never suffer racial abuse. Your two council estate boys - yes, one of them may be experiencing racism. It might be the white boy, especially if he goes to school in London. Or maybe the black boy does, but the white boy is getting bullied for something else, or getting abused in some other way. Is he still privileged over the other boy? What does his white skin do for him that gives him any advantage? I'm really struggling here. It seems like you think that being white is in itself some kind of great thing that confers advantage on people? It honestly sounds a bit racist to me. But maybe that's not what you think. It's not clear.

You are kind of contradicting yourself here. White privilege means you don't suffer racism, but you agree that white people do suffer racism. So what is white privilege?

I believe white people suffer less racism in the UK and USA than black people.

I would replace "characterized by" with "which still suffers from significant" - that would be much more accurate.

I am yet to be convinced that white privilege is an invalid concept. I have always thought economic injustice is the bigger issue, and this conversation is encouraging me to wonder the extent to which "white privilege" as a concept is one that is most useful to those who wish to reject greater economic equality (either because they are rich and white, or maybe because they are making lots of money writing crappy books about CRT and need the economic inequality to continue as there would be much less of a claim that the US was racist if everyone had a decent, basic income and standard of living

I believe that black people suffer more racism in the UK and US than white people do! Life is full of contradictions.

I can see that Sunak and Kwarteng lack white privilege whilst having every single ounce of class privilege going.

It seems like all you're saying here is, I can see they're not white.

Kemi gave a really interesting talk about her upbringing and how she got into politics. She is vehemently opposed to the idea of white privilege and talks about the racism she experienced being from people who thought she lacked privilege. I can't remember where I saw the talk - if I can find it, I'll link it.

TheClogLady
"Transwomen don’t have any legal rights because there is no such thing as a transwoman in UK Equalities law. Kemi Badenoch can’t take away a right that never existed."
TheClogLady · Today 18:17
The problem is isn’t the academic concepts or the linguistic choices per se, the problem is in the application of white privilege/white fragility to the real world and the ‘road to hell is paved with good intentions’ effect that believing and behaving as though a black person is always disadvantaged and a white person is always advantaged can create.
John McWhorter is excellent on this, as is Coleman Hughes.
^m.youtube.com/watch?v=O3JJ633Pf_0^
No point in me summarising badly when you can hear respected black academics and commentators directly via youtube.
I’m not personally convinced white privilege is a useful concept because it reinforces the sort of myopic western lens we’ve been trying to get away from.
Does white privilege exist in an African nation? Or in an Asian nation? How does it work in a country where there are many races and ethnicities?
Are we really talking about ‘majority privilege’ and ascribing that to white/black because we’ve imported an Americanism and not really thought about it? How is it useful in a way that improves material conditions?"

I can only applaud.
Which I do and may only add - as I'm personally
too fucking tired to argue/debate coherently
at this point, ClogLady has some fucking power,
intellect and above all energy/strength to even
respond to this avalanche of TRAlalaland landscape.
(If anything, I'm fucking too angry, I would fucking
strangle my own cretinous TRA ally son with
my bare hands, only I have to do his fucking washing/ironing first. Cook him some sort
of effing meal. He's only 25, mind you.)
He's my only child, I'm afraid.
Imagine, a fascist cooking a child's meal.
That's me in domestic action personified.
A fascist. Unheard of.
Unacceptable.
Fuck me.
And I say it pretty advisedly.
Fuck me, indeed.

So white privilege means fewer white people suffer from racism than black people do? Or it means that the racism experienced by white people is not as bad/hurtful as the racism experienced by black people?

I feel like we are stretching the idea of 'privilege' so far it's broken.

Everyone with white skin has white privilege. White privilege means not experiencing racism. But white people often do experience racism. But they still have white privilege.

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!

I have to go. What do you think it means and I will be back?

Very interesting. I'll look for longer video, too.

Btw I was trying to peg his accent and couldn't. It sounds very like my late grandmother's but not quite. That's bugging me now!

White privilege is maybe another way of saying "does not risk suffering the racism that minorities tend to suffer". I cannot see the problem with the term unless you don't understand it or you don;t believe that racism exists.

Of course racism exists. I just think ‘white privilege’ is a teeny tiny posh-academic-American viewpoint to view racism from and that it’s of little to no use in solving race based inequalities.

Lumping ‘minorities’ into a single group is a) racist and b) risks glossing over the racism that exists between races and ethnicities that aren’t white (eg the current issues between British men of Pakistani origin and British men of Indian origin in Leicester).

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/20/leicester-violence-india-pakistan-wade-dark-episode/

or the specific strain of anti semitism that results in black British perpetrators attacking Orthodox Jews in London:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-60158241

I want ALL racism to be addressed, and white privilege/black disadvantage is way too simplistic a concept to be of any real use in a multicultural society (especially one with pre-existing massive class based discrepancies).

Telling just the white kids they are always benefiting from a racist system, whilst those kids are literally witnessing tangible, observable racism around them that has absolutely nothing to do with those kids does nothing (best case scenario) to solve race-based inequalities and (worse case scenario) creates more divisions via resentment resulting in more future racism, not less.

I have to go too! I am procrastinating on MN, as per...

I don't think 'white privilege' means anything. I think it's a bullshit term used to make white people feel guilty and to accuse white people of inherent badness.

We don't live in a country where white people are privileged over non-white people in any kind of routine or systematised way. It may happen in some sub-cultural contexts. But in other sub-cultural contexts, black people may be privileged over white people, or Asian people over black people. Or some white people over other white people. And so on. The fact that we have an Asian PM reflects the redundancy of an idea like white privilege. We are not a country organised around race. We are a country organised around class, and class does not correspond to race here in any direct way.

It's not a useful concept. It's way more useful to talk about racism when it happens - because I agree, there is still racism in this country. But as we've agreed, it's not all one way. Also it is not systematic or institutionalised - again, we can see that it has largely been eradicated even from our most conservative institutions, such as the monarchy and parliament.

White people who have had no advantages in life are being told that they have white privilege and that they are inherently racist on the basis of their skin colour. I think it's insulting and racist to say a whole group of people have some inborn advantage and inherent fault. That's what I hear when I hear the term 'white privilege'.

Yeah the white peopke who visit our food bank are definitely suffering from ‘white orivilege’. So are all the white working class kids at the bottom of the pile no doubt. Anyone who believes this crap has got a screw loose

I’m white and have experienced racism so why have I white orivilege if this nutty nonsense is true?

DD1 was the only white kid at her nursery in the late '90s. We signed her up because we supported the nursery leader's attempt to attract a more diverse range of kids. Guess which kid got the racist abuse ( "ghost", "green-eyed monster", etc.)? Sadly, by the time that we moved away from the area no other white parents had followed our lead.

Guilt is a straw man. I don’t know anyone talk about guilt in relation to white privilege, and I mix with lots of like-minded woke people. But go ahead and argue that white is black and black is white. I think it’s a favourite of the right wingers, Brexiters etc.

Can I also quote “anyone who believes this has a screw loose” and “nutty nonsense” and I haven’t even caught up with more than the last 3 posts. For some balance, as some whinged that their opinions were called monstrous and that’s not kind or some such shit.

The most disadvantaged UK race/ethnic groups by almost all data markers are Gypsy, Roma & Irish Travellers.

I can’t come up with any way to square that data with the concept of ‘white privilege’ (presumably because the academics responsible have never given Gypsy, Roma and Travellers a moments thought? Or because the had to pretend Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people don’t exist lest their pet theory comes unstuck?)

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmwomeq/360/full-report.html